PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
It might be a good idea to amend it, but frankly I'm not familiar enough with the RLA to have any idea what would be worth revision.
Repealing the RLA
- Thread starter fender_jag
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It might be a good idea to amend it, but frankly I'm not familiar enough with the RLA to have any idea what would be worth revision.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
Well a contract is open to interpretation, so a disagreement is a disagreement that must be grieved, sure. My buddy had the company blatantly violate the contract to get him to show earlier than what our CBA allows for, he called our union rep, who couldn't do anything other than just tell him to grieve it. To add insult to injury the process took about 3 months... IMO you should have the right to decline anything that violates the CBA. Grieve now, fly later. Maybe other airlines are better, but here the company does what it wants when it wants.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Sure, there are lots of things worth amending. The problem is who would be doing the amending. Until you have a left-leaning Democratic majority in the House with a 60-vote majority in the Senate and a left-leaning Democrat in the White House, trying to amend the RLA is a suicide mission. Say hello to baseball style arbitration.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The problem is that allowing labor to simply refuse to go to work when they disagree with an interpretation means that labor has the ability to shut down the operation. In other words, pseudo-strike. That gives labor all of the power, and there is no way that any lawmaker would ever agree to such a thing. There has to be a balance of power between labor and management.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting disconnect. I'll never understand why any airline pilot is conservative. It's clearly not in their favor, yet I fly with hard core GOP voting guys all the time.
It's like my wife's patients who are on Medicare, yet vote Republican. Really? How does that make sense?
Dem's aren't necessarily saviors either. Neither party really cares.
I'm headed for my reserve duty next week working on the national death panel I'm assigned to. I'll bring up the issue to the rest of the panel members.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Ah, the good old Dems are not saviors as well.
Mike, you know we in the labor movement do not need saviors. All we need are politicians that BELIEVE in the basic foundation of protecting workers' rights and that are supportive of the very simple notion that employees should have a voice in their work environments.
While Dems may not be saviors on that note, they are certainly well more positioned politically to support those who believe in the above versus the other party that enjoys reducing corporate regulation and minimizing labor's standing in the workplace.
Toss this notion aside if you wish, it certainly is convenient and simple to disregard the obvious to fit one's worldview, but the characteristics do not change.
Mike, you know we in the labor movement do not need saviors. All we need are politicians that BELIEVE in the basic foundation of protecting workers' rights and that are supportive of the very simple notion that employees should have a voice in their work environments.
While Dems may not be saviors on that note, they are certainly well more positioned politically to support those who believe in the above versus the other party that enjoys reducing corporate regulation and minimizing labor's standing in the workplace.
Toss this notion aside if you wish, it certainly is convenient and simple to disregard the obvious to fit one's worldview, but the characteristics do not change.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Ahh, the classic cop out of the pilot who doesn't want to accept that one party is far better for him than the other.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
This can easily go waayyy down the wrong road, but name one thing that Obama has done for labor unions and "skilled" workers? 10/hr minimum wage for unskilled workers? fine, but skilled labor? The only difference I've seen at my regional is the virtual doubling of healthcare costs in the last three years.
Pilots traditionally vote right because for decades and even today the mainline pilot often makes north of 100k/yr, Dems generally aren't friendly to this demographic and they're bank account. Regional pilots of course are an exception.
@ATN_Pilot I got what your saying, but at least our company uses this rule to openly violate our CBA, I feel like there's got a to be a better and fairer way.
So this article, from last month from the left-leaning Washington Post, must be a bunch of crap then? I'm not tossing anything aside other than the fact that politics is politics, and anyone who actually believes that either political party in this great nation truly cares about them or their needs, are the ones who are fooling themselves. All they care about is your vote. And they'll feed you whatever BS they need to in order to get it. Constituents of both political parties fall for this, unfortunately.
Story below:
"Labor leaders who have spent months lobbying unsuccessfully for special protections under the Affordable Care Act warned this week that the White House’s continued refusal to help is dampening union support for Democratic candidates in this year’s midterm elections.
Leaders of two major unions, including the first to endorse Obama in 2008, said they have been betrayed by an administration that wooed their support for the 2009 legislation with promises to later address the peculiar needs of union-negotiated insurance plans that cover millions of workers.
Their complaints reflect a broad sense of disappointment among many labor leaders, who say the Affordable Care Act has subjected union health plans to new taxes and mandates while not allowing them to share in the subsidies that have gone to private insurance companies competing on the newly created exchanges.
After dozens of frustrating meetings with White House officials over the past year, including one with Obama, a number of angry labor officials say their members are far less likely to campaign and turn out for Democratic candidates in the midterm elections.
“We want to hold the president to his word: If you like your health-care coverage, you can keep it, and that just hasn’t been the case,” said Donald “D.” Taylor, president of Unite Here, the union that represents about 400,000 hotel and restaurant workers and provided a crucial boost to Obama by endorsing him just after his rival Hillary Rodham Clinton had won the New Hampshire primary.
Taylor and Terry O’Sullivan, president of the Laborers’ International Union of North America, laid out their grievances this week in a terse letter to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.), saying they are “bitterly disappointed” in the administration.
A White House spokeswoman declined to comment on the union leaders’ claims that they were misled. A person familiar with Obama’s meeting with the labor chiefs said he “listened to the group’s concerns with empathy” but explained that the law would not permit the administration to take the steps they requested.
Obama administration officials and some outside experts said that if the unions got their way, people enrolled in their plans would be indirectly getting two tax benefits while most Americans get only one.
In December, Labor Secretary Thomas Perez proposed some changes for plans that cover unionized and other workers.
But in the letter to Reid and Pelosi, O’Sullivan and Taylor wrote, “If the administration honestly thinks that these proposed rules are responsive to our concerns, they were not listening or they simply did not care.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...da6afc-8789-11e3-833c-33098f9e5267_story.html
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
First, the Post doesn't "lean left." Second, a party doesn't have to cater to your every whim in order for it to be better for you overall.
ross9238
Well-Known Member
Disclaimer: Trying to learn so please don't misconstrue anything that is said as flame bait.
It seems as though in the case that HVYMETALDRVR mentioned, there is no balance since it has already tipped onto the management side without any repercussions to them. Management can make blatant violations to be grieved and then the results to be determined at a later date. Correct me if I'm wrong but the grievances will just ultimately make the labor side look "good" come contract negotiations considering the violations committed by management. Is this true?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I make far north of that mark, and dems are still far better for me. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: if you don't make at least seven figures a year, you shouldn't even be giving the Republicans the time of day. Because they certainly don't care about you or your issues.
I'm all ears. Tell me a fairer way that still provides a balance of power that lawmakers could accept.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, management has to have an arguable basis for their interpretation. They can't just choose to blatantly ignore the CBA. Pilots often perceive it that way, but I've personally never seen a grievance where the company didn't have at least some sliver of a reasonable argument for their interpretation. If they don't, then you can actually go to court rather than the grievance process, since that falls into the territory of "major dispute." And in court, unlike the grievance process, punitive damages are possible. Management is very good coming right up to that line, but not going over it.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
Agree to disagree. I've seen first hand the effects of Obama and his associates have been having on my family and I. But that's besides the point, @PhilosopherPilot not everyone that doesn't like the left is a card carrying GOP member either, I'm personally more libertarian... I even agree with the Dems on a few points.
Second Question:
I'm working on it, I'll get back to you on this later gotta run some errands.
EDIT: I quoted it wrong sorry about that.
They lean left in a general sense, yes; about as much as the Washington Times leans right. They're more center than MSNBC vs Fox and their extremes, but they do have a left of center slant.
It's not catering to every whim, but its an example of how one party in general isn't necessarily better than the other in this system we have, as both truly exist to serve themselves at the end of the day, not really to serve you or I or the rest of the American people. It's unfortunate, but that's what it's become. While Dems are generally seen as pro-labor I'll agree, don't fall into the trap of thinking that everything will be rosy with them in office. Because this is a good example of how there are limits to even their supposed "pro-labor" stance. It'll be interesting to see what these labor people talking to and trying to woo Republicans come up with; because either party will act on their behalf.....so long as it will fit their agenda.
I can actually see the Republicans helping these labor groups out......not because they truly care about labor, but because it will get them votes. And votes = power. Both parties are well aware of that.
PhilosopherPilot
Well-Known Member
I understand that. I don't fit perfectly into any of the groups either.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
It was an XJT pilot that made this petition. When I saw it go up on the crack pipe and saw the word "repeal" I seriously made a facepalm. I'm not the best with this Union stuff quite yet, but even I know that for the most part the RLA>NLRB. There is a reason why UPS drivers are pissed about FedEx drivers being under the RLA. They want the RLA to apply to them for the better union benefits.
The petition definitely should have been to amend/modify the RLA. The grievance process takes way too long and would be a good starting point.
The petition definitely should have been to amend/modify the RLA. The grievance process takes way too long and would be a good starting point.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Was it SpatialD? Please tell me it was SpatialD!
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
@jtrain609 I wish I could say. I saw people talking about it in a thread and all of a sudden someone made the petition. The typo makes it interesting.
I know SpatialD seems to not like the RLA but I can't say it as him. Sorry to get your hopes up
I seriously would not be surprised if it was though. Him saying he will run for ORD LEC and then tell pilots to make an illegal job action is a good indicator. No wonder management sent out that one email a month ago.
EDIT: Petition says the creator was from IL. Unless he moved it wasn't him.
I know SpatialD seems to not like the RLA but I can't say it as him. Sorry to get your hopes up
I seriously would not be surprised if it was though. Him saying he will run for ORD LEC and then tell pilots to make an illegal job action is a good indicator. No wonder management sent out that one email a month ago.
EDIT: Petition says the creator was from IL. Unless he moved it wasn't him.
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