Bonanza down in Telluride, kills all three on board.

Report says they took off in light snow. Has me wondering. I can't think of a Bonanza that has the ability to deal with icing conditions.
 
I don't mean to speak out of context here, and certainly mean no disrespect to the pilots...

...but with these pilots being professional pilots for airlines, do you think airline experience was a negative factor? What I mean is; they are comfortable flying in snow and various weather conditions. So is it possible that they misjudged the capabilities of the small single engine plane? They may have been so used to seeing this weather and flying anyway with the capabilities of larger jets. This, of course, is assuming weather played a part in the crash.

Maybe @MikeD can share his thoughts and insight?

Regardless, what a tragedy! Reminds you that anything can happen, even to the most skilled of pilots.
 
jgheggie said:
I don't mean to speak out of context here, and certainly mean no disrespect to the pilots...

...but with these pilots being professional pilots for airlines, do you think airline experience was a negative factor? What I mean is; they are comfortable flying in snow and various weather conditions. So is it possible that they misjudged the capabilities of the small single engine plane? They may have been so used to seeing this weather and flying anyway with the capabilities of larger jets. This, of course, is assuming weather played a part in the crash.

Maybe @MikeD can share his thoughts and insight?

Regardless, what a tragedy! Reminds you that anything can happen, even to the most skilled of pilots.
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From my experience, regarding the above, pilots are generally fully aware of the capabilities and limitations of what they are flying at any given time, be it performance-wise, complexity-wise, etc. I'm sure negative transfer has occurred at times, but I certainly wouldn't believe it to be any kind of a trend in aviation.
 
MikeD said:
From my experience, regarding the above, pilots are generally fully aware of the capabilities and limitations of what they are flying at any given time, be it performance-wise, complexity-wise, etc. I'm sure negative transfer has occurred at times, but I certainly wouldn't believe it to be any kind of a trend in aviation.
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I'd agree, and almost argue the opposite- I think if you've been through heavy ice in a well-equipped airplane, it should scare the pants off you trying to do it in a light single.
 
This has to be a lesson for a lot of the newer pilots and all of us.

"The Andersons both were commercial airplane pilots, and Durban was a former military pilot, the sheriff said."

No one is above or beyond making mistakes or having things happen. ie. MX

RIP to all.
 
Everyone is immediately assuming that the aircraft was brought down by frozen precip. Why is that?

I'm asking because I want to know more - ice scares the crap out of me. I delayed a flight Saturday morning due to frost on the wings after a heavy dew & 23 degree morning low temp.
 
tomokc said:
Everyone is immediately assuming that the aircraft was brought down by frozen precip. Why is that?

I'm asking because I want to know more - ice scares the crap out of me. I delayed a flight Saturday morning due to frost on the wings after a heavy dew & 23 degree morning low temp.
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frost is no joke man, you did the right thing.

I don't know the specifics so I won't speculate but in general snow does not mean ice will form 100% of the time.
 
tomokc said:
Everyone is immediately assuming that the aircraft was brought down by frozen precip. Why is that?

I'm asking because I want to know more - ice scares the crap out of me. I delayed a flight Saturday morning due to frost on the wings after a heavy dew & 23 degree morning low temp.
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I don't think there is any assumption that ice is the culprit here. It's just a topic of discussion, seeing as how it's winter in ski country, in an airplane that has no business operating in anything less than perfect weather in that region during this time of year.
 
gotWXdagain said:
Did they lose SA and get off climb gradient/odp?
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I am wondering if they didn't have power or had some other kind of issue. It has been years since I lived in Telluride, so maybe I am way off base, but I am thinking that to hit something a mile west of the runway would almost require level flight or a slight descent after departure. Of course the news description of the crash location may also be incorrect.
 
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I just did my FIRC. Makes me wonder how the Air Safety Institute would look at this one...

Visibility of 1 mile in the mountains is basically IFR. FIKI, turbo, whatever, but it would be prudent to observe applicable terrain clearance. ODP for Telluride:

TELLURIDE, CO
TELLURIDE RGNL (TEX)
AMDT 2 11181 (FAA)
TAKEOFF MINIMUMS: Rwy 9, NA-obstacles.
Rwy 27, std. w/ min. climb of 463' per NM to 10500, or
5400-3 for climb in visual conditions.
DEPARTURE PROCEDURE: Rwy 27, climb to 12000 via
heading 273° to intercept the ETL R-096 to ETL VOR/
DME, or for climb in visual conditions: cross Telluride
Airport westbound at or above 14300 via ETL R-095 to
ETL VOR/DME. Note: All aircraft cross ETL VOR/DME at
or above airway MEA/MCA for direction of flight.
NOTE: Rwy 27, trees beginning 32' from DER 421' left of
centerline, up to 100' AGL/9381' MSL. Trees beginning
173' from DER, 46' right of centerline, up to 100'
AGL/9094’ MSL. Light support structure 8' from DER, 60'
left and right of centerline, up to 4' AGL/9039' MSL. Terrain
beginning at DER, left and right of centerline, up to 9075'
MSL.

Telluride is every bit as "bad" as Aspen - perhaps worse as far a terrain and pilot skill/local knowledge goes. 463' per NM is pretty huge for any single at 9000MSL. Cold day and a turbo, perhaps they had the performance. But, I don't really see much of an "out" or a plan B for this one if and when things go bad - a little induction ice or just a bit of accumulation on the wings and things go bad in a hurry.

So what do we do with this? How do we teach this event in the hopes of reducing the GA fatality rate? What could have been said to this group of highly trained aviators to prevent this accident?
 
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