Latest Eagle AIP rejected

ATN_Pilot said:
You guys keep missing management's ace in the hole: they don't really care if nobody is able to pick up the flying. It's not profitable! If they can rape you of your compensation package and still get you to come to work, then they're fine with that. But if not, they'll radically scale back regional feed to the number of 70+ seat RJs that makes sense, and the rest of the feed will go back to small gauge mainline aircraft on reduced frequency. Same markets, same ASMs, fewer airplanes, lower CASM.
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Isn't flying going back to mainline better for the industry overall?
 
Seggy said:
Come on Joe and those others who liked this post. The Eagle MEC wasn't unanimous in this. They put out a communication that will force management to react a certain way where everyone WASN'T on board with an outcome that is going to lead management into their next step. It sounds like an emotionally charged decision was made by some elected reps that has real consequences for thousands.
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Our MEC vote to release our TA to a vote wasn't unanimous. We all know how that ended.

Just because an MEC member votes one way doesn't mean they have the slightest inkling of what their membership wants.
 
Roger Roger said:
Isn't flying going back to mainline better for the industry overall?
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Yes.

If anyone tells you it's a bad thing, they're either a regional lifer with no positive motivation to love on or someone who chooses to be ignorant about the industry in which they are employed.

I caution you to take any additional solicited, or unsolicited advice, with a skeptic ear.

Screaming_Emu said:
Our MEC vote to release our TA to a vote wasn't unanimous. We all know how that ended. Just because an MEC member votes one way doesn't mean they have the slightest inkling of what their membership wants.
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You sure about that? The ASA MEC voted 9-0 to send it to the pilot group. Doesn't get any more unanimous than that. Pretty sure you know that and the "wasn't" was a dumb typo.
 
Seggy said:
@Screaming_Emu remember instead of sitting here on the internet posting pics of someone dropping the mike, I have been in a position to help guide folks to make similar decisions.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the AIP. But for unity within the Eagle Pilot group, it is being horrifically handled. This isn't internet games.
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I'm sorry...but other than Spirit, when lately has an ALPA group had the balls to stand up to management and say no to anything?
 
Cptnchia said:
And another thread where ALPA elite seem to be out of touch with line pilots and attempt to tell us why they know better and we should just pipe down and listen to them.
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Yup...right now national seems to think that regionals should roll over and take concessions. When Pinnacle and PSA rolled over and passed their concessionary contracts national was quick to praise them. When XJT voted no it was a blurb in a newsletter many days later.

It really doesn't make any sense either for them to adapt that mentality. Right now the regional industry finally has some cards stacked in its favor. If there is a time to try to better this part of the profession, its right now.

Throw in the fact that in my opinion, when the two sides of the XJT merger were bickering about PBS, national should have stepped in to mediate. Tons of wasted time on something that in the grand scheme of things, doesn't really matter.
 
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surreal1221 said:
Yes.

If anyone tells you it's a bad thing, they're either a regional lifer with no positive motivation to love on or someone who chooses to be ignorant about the industry in which they are employed.

I caution you to take any additional solicited, or unsolicited advice, with a skeptic ear.



You sure about that? The ASA MEC voted 9-0 to send it to the pilot group. Doesn't get any more unanimous than that. Pretty sure you know that and the "wasn't" was a dumb typo.
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I thought we had 3 guys on ERJ side vote No.
 
Seggy said:
Weren't you saying that you would have upgraded three years ago at Eagle? Weren't you saying a few months ago that you guys would be getting CRJ-900s? Your predictions with Eagle haven't come to fruition.
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1. I didn't see the Recession or Bankruptcy coming. Kinda slowed my timeline. *shrugs*

2. WE WERE OFFERED CRJ-900s but the deal was so crappy we attempted to negotiate a better deal and the post-merged company decided to take them to a lower bidder.

Speaking of PSAs, don't feed the trolls, kids.

In closing, SHUT UP, TROLL.

*drops mike and walks out*
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Our MEC vote to release our TA to a vote wasn't unanimous. We all know how that ended.

Just because an MEC member votes one way doesn't mean they have the slightest inkling of what their membership wants.
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Then if the member doesn't know what the membership wants you show them by voting no on the deal like you guys did. Sends a much stronger message than having 9 people vote on it one way or another.
 
surreal1221 said:
You sure about that? The ASA MEC voted 9-0 to send it to the pilot group. Doesn't get any more unanimous than that. Pretty sure you know that and the "wasn't" was a dumb typo.
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Proves my point even more actually if your numbers are right. Entire MEC thought it was a good TA. 82% of voting pilots didn't agree.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I'm sorry...but other than Spirit, when lately has an ALPA group had the balls to stand up to management and say no to anything?
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You guys by voting down your agreement. The Pinnacle pilots by getting the most out of an agreement they could have under a difficult leverage position.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Proves my point even more actually if your numbers are right. Entire MEC thought it was a good TA. 82% of voting pilots didn't agree.
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Ran into an ExpressJet guy last night in the terminal. Guess he just got elected. He told me some of the shenanigans being pulled by the former MEC. Gee... Sounds like you guys cleaned house. Good riddance and all that.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Yup...right now national seems to think that regionals should roll over and take concessions. When Pinnacle and PSA rolled over and passed their concessionary contracts national was quick to praise them.
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Once again, how did the Pinnacle pilots 'roll over'? They were in BANKRUPTCY. If an agreement was voted down, management could have imposed far worse work rules and pay. Also, was the PSA deal really concessionary? Or is it just more internet bravado?
 
Seggy said:
Once again, how did the Pinnacle pilots 'roll over'? They were in BANKRUPTCY. If an agreement was voted down, management could have imposed far worse work rules and pay. Also, was the PSA deal really concessionary? Or is it just more internet bravado?
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How in the hell do you view topping out on pay as an f/o at 4 years not concessionary?

And the Eagle guys are being faced with the exact same threat as you guys. Maybe not official bankruptcy, but a shut down none the less.
 
Roger Roger said:
Isn't flying going back to mainline better for the industry overall?
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Yes, I think so. But the problem is that the guys at the regionals end up unemployed in the process. Since mainline pilots have been such arrogant jerks, there is no pathway for those guys to get the mainline carriers. The younger guys will probably be ok in the long run, but the older "lifers" are left holding the bag, because unless you have some big time connections, no legacy carrier is hiring a 55 year old unemployed RJ captain. This problem should have been solved years ago with the regional guys all having seniority numbers at the mainline carrier, but mainline egos got in the way.
 
Circling back....I was at the meeting and let me clarify, "passionate" (or "emotional" as others have said) does not necessarily equal "uneducated," "poorly planned," or "not pragmatic." We should be involved, educated, and invested whole-heartedly in the challenges facing our futures. While there was passion at the meeting, there were also extremely high levels of professionalism, order, civility, and courtesy. As pilots, we all know the negative role that emotions can play in our decision making if we let them.

The room was not as "charged" as many think. People brought their opinions and viewpoints to be voiced, and both sides were well represented. After the vote, yes voters and no voters all came together and discussed with handshakes. I am proud to be an eagle pilot today and proud that our reps accurately acted, and voted, the will of their constituents. Both on the no side and on the yes side.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
It really doesn't make any sense either for them to adapt that mentality. Right now the regional industry finally has some cards stacked in its favor.
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All evidence points to the contrary being true.

Throw in the fact that in my opinion, when the two sides of the XJT merger were bickering about PBS, national should have stepped in to mediate. Tons of wasted time on something that in the grand scheme of things, doesn't really matter.
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You're speaking from a position of ignorance. In fact, national did get involved, and held numerous summits between the two leaderships to try to get it resolved. Meetings with the president, in fact. But national can't force people to get along and come to their senses.
 
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