Virgin America Pilot Pay Increase

Derg said:
If the shoe were on the other foot, you know you would be screaming blood murder.

Don't even try to deny it.
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Trying to understand, do you mean if I was a DAL pilot and saw this pay increase for VX? If I was DAL, I don't think I'd care much for a small airline the size of VX. Something I could comfortably say at DAL (and at the moment not comfortably say for VX) is that DAL is the last employer one would ever work for (as in this is the final place all the way through retirement).
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Trying to understand, do you mean if I was a DAL pilot and saw this pay increase for VX?
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No. He means you'd be complaining loudly if the Delta upgrade went to 4 years and you were stuck on 11 year FO pay at VX.

We have 5 year captains out here now, and Airways has 1 year captains (on the 190, but still).
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Trying to understand, do you mean if I was a DAL pilot and saw this pay increase for VX? If I was DAL, I don't think I'd care much for a small airline the size of VX. Something I could comfortably say at DAL (and at the moment not comfortably say for VX) is that DAL is the last employer one would ever work for (as in this is the final place all the way through retirement).
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MMMTO.

Fairly junior FO's at legacies (and other carriers) are making more than your topped out Captains.

We create ASMs, and there is a value for that. It is up to management to fill those ASMs.

I sincerely hope you guys are getting crazy options as a reward downline. Otherwise, you're just funding someone else's lifestyle & retirement.
 
BobDDuck said:
No. He means you'd be complaining loudly if the Delta upgrade went to 4 years and you were stuck on 11 year FO pay at VX.

We have 5 year captains out here now, and Airways has 1 year captains (on the 190, but still).
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I'm already looking at a 11 yr upgrade based on the current fleet plan (only 10 airplanes in 2015/6) and then 30 over 2020-2022. I wouldn't upgrade until those batch of 30 came. I'm already resigned to a career FO. I left as a 5th yr RJ FO (and if there today I'd be a 7th RJ FO capped at 4th year pay). I'm starting 3rd year pay here at current Co. As for Delta, I would actually be happy for them if they had movement and upgrade times dropped that low. If only for the reason that if anyone does have to start over somewhere, the pain is lessened with quick movement through the ranks. I hope to see the same thing at United and American as well.


MMMTO.

Fairly junior FO's at legacies (and other carriers) are making more than your topped out Captains.
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What acryonm is MMMTO?

Sure, legacy pay is the highest creme of the crop, but is it realistic to expect Delta wages? Delta has been around coming up soon on nearly 100 years, has 700+ planes in its system, revenue generation on the order of billions each *quarter* and a long history to back it up. VX got off to a very shaky start, finally started in 2007 in what then turned out to be a very bad time in aviation due to the economic recession/depression, and is currently 7 years old with 53 airplanes. Their revenue source has just recently hit one billion for an entire year to be considered as a 'Major' airline. They have been in the red almost entirely due to the mentioned 2008-2011 recession and just last year finally went in the black. This fact, along with their revenue strength and economies of scale with 53 narrowbody airplanes, IMO, cannot support legacy wages.

Here are more realistic comparisons from airlines in the approx. total aircraft size:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/frontier_airlines

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/sun_country_airlines

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/allegiant_air

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/jetblue_airways

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/spirit_airlines
 
Polar742 said:
MMMTO.

Fairly junior FO's at legacies (and other carriers) are making more than your topped out Captains.

We create ASMs, and there is a value for that. It is up to management to fill those ASMs.

I sincerely hope you guys are getting crazy options as a reward downline. Otherwise, you're just funding someone else's lifestyle & retirement.
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This is what I didn't have the clarity (or patience) to say.

And if you don't understand "MMMTO" you're failing at the internet: "More money, more time off"

Making more, as a first officer than your highest paying captain isn't a win. You're not a regional pilot, @Cherokee_Cruiser, nor should you be paid like one.

We used to call that "Turboprop rates at Jet speeds" back in the old days.

But enjoy. Knock 'em dead. So proud.
 
I guess that leaves me with two options. Go to boss man and say "MMMTO please." Boss man will say "go back just do your job." Option two is ALPA and that could take a long time based on how slow organizing has been going on and with ALPA apparently being busy. Even with option two obtaining a CBA will not be quick and what it will do is lock in these current rates for the indefinite future until a CBA is negotiated. It will be on the order of 3-5 years. Most importantly leverage lies in the financial viability of an airline. I wouldn't mind option two but I question if we have the leverage to pull it off. I've seen how these NMB members work and if they are shown pages and pages of red, the pilot group isn't going anywhere soon.
 
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And Derg, I did what any reasonable person would have done about something they didn't know. I googled "MMMTO."

Only one entry came up:

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/MMMTO

Acronym - MMMTO
Definition - Mixed Mesodermal Tumor of the Ovary

Given the harsh rhetoric I face, you'll have to excuse me for believing the google entry. I do appreciate being wrong in this case! :D
 
I learned a lot about being a parent and a grandparent from my real Dad and my tv Dad. Back in the day, I had all of Bill's record albums and listened to them over and over. The two men as it turned out, had much in common and were rather similar, happily for us kids. I love them both.

bill-cosby-wonderfulness.jpg




 
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A Life Aloft said:
I learned a lot about being a parent and a grandparent from my real Dad and my tv Dad. Back in the day, I had all of Bill's record albums and listened to them over and over. The two men as it turned out, had much in common and were rather similar, happily for us kids. I love them both.

bill-cosby-wonderfulness.jpg




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My dad still has thse LP's. There are hilarious and not one F-this, F-that to be found.....
 
hcaeborev said:
Everyone else in pretty much the entire world: Sweet! A raise!

Pilots: This raise is too small! :def:
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I see it the same way I see the SkyWest "agreement." That is, I will take what I can get, and still aspire to more, thank you...

hcaeborev said:
?

1.9B profit for 2013.....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/samanth...rts-stronger-than-expected-combined-earnings/
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Hooray! see below.

Derg said:
We used to call that "Turboprop rates at Jet speeds" back in the old days.
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(Regional) Jet rates at prop speeds, hopefully effective 01 February.

BobDDuck said:
Airways was making bank just prior to the merger. I think American made money the last two quarters as well.
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Fair enough. Something about the labor (and especially pensioners) upon whose backs they are doing it goes here, naturally. There are, IMO, only a handful of things worth getting quite angry about on a regular basis in this industry, and that is one of them. "Good news, everyone! We walked away from our obligations and suddenly are making money again!"
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I guess that leaves me with two options. Go to boss man and say "MMMTO please." Boss man will say "go back just do your job." Option two is ALPA and that could take a long time based on how slow organizing has been going on and with ALPA apparently being busy. Even with option two obtaining a CBA will not be quick and what it will do is lock in these current rates for the indefinite future until a CBA is negotiated. It will be on the order of 3-5 years. Most importantly leverage lies in the financial viability of an airline. I wouldn't mind option two but I question if we have the leverage to pull it off. I've seen how these NMB members work and if they are shown pages and pages of red, the pilot group isn't going anywhere soon.
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If a pilot group is truly unified, and not scared to death of every single threat thrown at them, negotiations go faster.

"The Union"is not some nebulous organization from where power and leverage originates, quite the opposite. The power and leverage of the union comes from each individual pilot acting in unison powering the organization.

Almost all of us are lost to the concept. It is truly a "bottom up" organization as opposed to the company structure which is "top down". If you're waiting for some suit in Arlington to give you matching orders, our direction how to act, no one in the world can help you.

The power comes from you, and each line pilot. The results might surprise you.
 
Polar742 said:
Almost all of us are lost to the concept. It is truly a "bottom up" organization as opposed to the company structure which is "top down". If you're waiting for some suit in Arlington Herndon to give you matching orders, our direction how to act, no one in the world can help you.
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I figure if guys are going to be looking for a Suit to come help they should at least be looking in the right city.
 
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