Canadair Crash at ASE / Aspen Eagle, Colorado

tomokc said:
What's with the never-ending vertical oscillation, all the way from (at least) a couple of hundred feet all the way through to the hard touch down? What appears to be a balloon after initial touchdown looks to me as continuation of the oscillation that started as he rounded into the flare.
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Looks like a mini version of the FEDEX deal in Japan.
 
Crop Duster said:
If we have OPEN records, why do we need to make a "formal request" (whatever that is) to get at this supposedly OPEN information??
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To get them compiled, edited, placed together, etc. Then released.

Open in the sense of "not otherwise classified".

Not necessarily that "they're open, but we're going to hide them until requested by someone formally and we can't hide them any longer!!"
 
MikeD said:
To get them compiled, edited, placed together, etc. Then released.

Open in the sense of "not otherwise classified".

Not necessarily that "they're open, but we're going to hide them until requested by someone formally and we can't hide them any longer!!"
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I hear that answer quite often from kool aides drinking kool-aid. If it's open it should be published without having to ask for it. You know, as a public service. I know, I know... I'm idealistic and believe in antiquated concepts of democracy.
 
Crop Duster said:
Looks like a mini version of the FEDEX deal in Japan.
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Yeah but the MD-11 is sort of notorious for that sort of thing, whereas twelve year old riddle rats land a Challenger a million times a year. Hell, I think @TFaudree_ERAU even manages to land them from time to time. Not anywhere near the touchdown zone, mind you, but everyone seems to survive...

Wait, was that in poor taste? I SAW THE SHOT AND I TOOK IT.
 
Crop Duster said:
I hear that answer quite often from kool aides drinking kool-aid. If it's open it should be published without having to ask for it. You know, as a public service. I know, I know... I'm idealistic and believe in antiquated concepts of democracy.
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There are processes to things. That's just a fact of life. When requested however, the process should be as quick and efficient as possible in order to release a good quality useable product.
 
Crop Duster said:
You must be referring to those antiquated "due processes" which have all evaporated with seemingly nary a whimper over the past decade and a half. Like the kind to which this guy was just subjected a few days ago. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/21/google_glass_mpaa_homeland_security/
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Basic process for requesting regular information to be released. And the concept of due process..

Neither having anything to do with one another.

Interesting story nonetheless.
 
I'm not sure on the flight times in the challenger but these guys were new to this tail number. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3rd guy was there for insurance. Challenger approaches nose low vs. other airplanes. I believe it was an oscillation that got away from them. Nerves, pressure, inexperience, tailwinds, and _____ all contributed.
Sad deal and "luckily" it was at aspen so we may even learn a thing or two. Hopefully the rich (expletive deleted) we'll understand the reasons behind diverts to Rifle and the spineless captains will have some confidence in the decisions they should have made to begin with.
 
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mikecweb said:
I'm not sure on the flight times in the challenger but these guys were new to this tail number. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3rd guy was there for insurance. Challenger approaches nose low vs. other airplanes. I believe it was an oscillation that got away from them. Nerves, pressure, inexperience, tailwinds, and _____ all contributed.
Sad deal and "luckily" it was at aspen so we may even learn a thing or two. Hopefully the rich (expletive deleted) we'll understand the reasons behind diverts to Rifle and the spineless captains will have some confidence in the decisions they should have made to begin with.
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Is the challenger flare similar to the metro flare... about 2 degrees pitch up?
 
Boris Badenov said:
Yeah but the MD-11 is sort of notorious for that sort of thing, whereas twelve year old riddle rats land a Challenger a million times a year. Hell, I think @TFaudree_ERAU even manages to land them from time to time. Not anywhere near the touchdown zone, mind you, but everyone seems to survive...

Wait, was that in poor taste? I SAW THE SHOT AND I TOOK IT.
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What can I say? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
 
Another possibility is a classic gotcha in the RJ. We had a crew do this and almost lost an A/C over it. Spoiler logic. Wheel spin up, thrust idle (some low N2), and I believe 5FT AGL. So they came in, got a sink so they threw the thrust up, hit, bounced, chopped the power, all the boards came up and they planted.

If this guy here added power, hit, and started a huge climb but chopped the power as soon as they bounced, that might explain why he climbed and then turned into a brick. Just another thought.
 
Pilotdude3407 said:
Another possibility is a classic gotcha in the RJ. We had a crew do this and almost lost an A/C over it. Spoiler logic. Wheel spin up, thrust idle (some low N2), and I believe 5FT AGL. So they came in, got a sink so they threw the thrust up, hit, bounced, chopped the power, all the boards came up and they planted.

If this guy here added power, hit, and started a huge climb but chopped the power as soon as they bounced, that might explain why he climbed and then turned into a brick. Just another thought.
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We did an uncommanded spoiler deployment in the GIV sim at 50 AGL to see what would happen. It was pretty violent. Sounds reasonable.
 
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