Best pilot school?

To fight a war the military is best, yes, but to operate in an airline environment, I don't agree with that.
 
I got a degree here that has little to do with flying airplanes, and I did some flying here and here (which was totally badass) and a few other places that are defunct.

And I don't have an Embry-Riddle student loan, which is probably the best part of all.

Stone Cold said:
So, you're....ahh, never mind, I looked at who I was responding to. Carry on.
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Mission mentality is (should be, anyway) very different, so there might be something to that. There is more to flying than stick-and-rudder, although stick-and-rudder is certainly integral.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Mission mentality is (should be, anyway) very different, so there might be something to that. There is more to flying than stick-and-rudder, although stick-and-rudder is certainly integral.
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I'm not approaching it from a mission mentality. Just look at the courses you have to go through for UPT to begin off with...it is no comparison to civilian flying. Us civilians catch up after a while of true experience, but how many civvies have been upside down on purpose? How many have seen anything close to the envelope the military guys do? There's a reason they can go to any of their platforms with so few hours and survive.

I'm not saying they are the end-all-be-all, and I agree after a while the "mission mentality" may creep in, but it does with us former freight dawgs also sometimes, and some other possible flight occupations. Also, I think stick and rudder may have helped some in the more recent crashes we've seen. Go around to stall in Kazan, flying a visual into the sea wall in SFO, Colgan, AF, etc.

I'm civilian trained, but know they have a superior product right out of the gate. To discount their flight schooling as he did was flippant and embarrassing for him. Like I said, yes, eventually we catch up to them, but that is more experience and flying the line than their training. That was my only comment.
 
Stone Cold said:
I'm not approaching it from a mission mentality. Just look at the courses you have to go through for UPT to begin off with...it is no comparison to civilian flying. Us civilians catch up after a while of true experience, but how many civvies have been upside down on purpose? How many have seen anything close to the envelope the military guys do? There's a reason they can go to any of their platforms with so few hours and survive.
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I have been; regarding flight envelopes, I'm not allowed to go outside them, even in an acrobatic category airplane, although I've cozied up against the edges before. I think it should be required. There's considerable benefit to realizing that all airplanes are all-attitude vehicles.

I'm not saying they are the end-all-be-all, and I agree after a while the "mission mentality" may creep in, but it does with us former freight dawgs also sometimes, and some other possible flight occupations. Also, I think stick and rudder may have helped some in the more recent crashes we've seen. Go around to stall in Kazan, flying a visual into the sea wall in SFO, Colgan, AF, etc.
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On this topic, you are preaching to the converted.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I have been; regarding flight envelopes, I'm not allowed to go outside them, even in an acrobatic category airplane, although I've cozied up against the edges before. I think it should be required. There's considerable benefit to realizing that all airplanes are all-attitude vehicles.
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yes, but the original comment was that the military has the best flight training. *Most civilian courses do not come close to anything that they teach. I have done a few hours of aerobatics, some glider flying, and upset training. You do realize that our experience is not the norm for flight training in the US for civilians, yes?


On this topic, you are preaching to the converted.
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We all have our advantages and disadvantages. Our experiences hopefully add to the flight deck, and this is how we become productive members of the crew.

I have flown with rigid former airline guys since working over here in corporate aviation, and it is scary what happens when they are not in their "ILS" zone. Story best told over beers one day, but a former 747 captain (guess which airline...it begins with Korean...) I am flying with now tried killing me on the way to Samedan, Switzerland, this rotation. Flight attendant even commented on how he had locked up on the flight. If the FA that is still relatively new to aviation realizes how badly you screwed up on a visual (albeit, ATC didn't help), you have issues.
 
Stone Cold said:
yes, but the original comment was that the military has the best flight training. *Most civilian courses do not come close to anything that they teach. I have done a few hours of aerobatics, some glider flying, and upset training. You do realize that our experience is not the norm for flight training in the US for civilians, yes?
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I keep finding it out, and it disturbs me, yes.

I have flown with rigid former airline guys since working over here in corporate aviation, and it is scary what happens when they are not in their "ILS" zone. Story best told over beers one day, but a former 747 captain (guess which airline...it begins with Korean...) I am flying with now tried killing me on the way to Samedan, Switzerland, this rotation. Flight attendant even commented on how he had locked up on the flight. If the FA that is still relatively new to aviation realizes how badly you screwed up on a visual (albeit, ATC didn't help), you have issues.
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Impressive...
 
Stone Cold said:
I'm civilian trained, but know they have a superior product right out of the gate. To discount their flight schooling as he did was flippant and embarrassing for him. Like I said, yes, eventually we catch up to them, but that is more experience and flying the line than their training. That was my only comment.
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Wow, folks need to have a little bit of reading comprehension here and not put words in my mouth and assume what I say.

Yes, the military puts out a fine product. But that fine product does very little the first time someone coming from a F-16 lands on 9L in ORD in a snowstorm and needs to taxi to M-17.

In airline flying it is about managing the flight, not doing the best tactical maneuver.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Military hands down best flight school, period.
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Seggy said:
To fight a war the military is best, yes, but to operate in an airline environment, I don't agree with that.
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Seggy said:
Wow, folks need to have a little bit of reading comprehension here and not put words in my mouth and assume what I say.

Yes, the military puts out a fine product. But that fine product does very little the first time someone coming from a F-16 lands on 9L in ORD in a snowstorm and needs to taxi to M-17.

In airline flying it is about managing the flight, not doing the best tactical maneuver.
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The comment was best flight school, not what you think a future airline pilot should have. I did not put words in your mouth, you failed at reading what you responded to.

As far as good flight schools in the civilian world, some are better than others. Choose a decent flight school with a good reputation and an instructor whom you get along with. Gain experience doing a variety of flying, and make yourself marketable. How many thousands of RJ FO's are out there? Do something to make yourself stand out from the crowd and give you better, more marketable, experience.

I would even respond with who is prepared for going into ORD in a snowstorm their first time? You'd choose a guy straight out of a 172 over an F-16 guy, same hours level?

Time for bed. Enjoy the rest of the thread.
 
Stone Cold said:
The comment was best flight school, not what you think a future airline pilot should have. I did not put words in your mouth, you failed at reading what you responded to.
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Still, just because you can perform a textbook tactical maneuver doesn't make you a great pilot. It just shows you can do something you are trained to do.


I would even respond with who is prepared for going into ORD in a snowstorm their first time? You'd choose a guy straight out of a 172 over an F-16 guy, same hours level?
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Military guys don't get their ratings in F-16s.
 
Seggy said:
Still, just because you can perform a textbook tactical maneuver doesn't make you a great pilot. It just shows you can do something you are trained to do.




Military guys don't get their ratings in F-16s.
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No, they don't, but just to humor you for one second...put a 1000TT CFI or whatever you want (172's or similar, heck boost it up to a Seminole, and compare them to a 1000TT F-16 pilot, which is in the very realm of possibility. You are still saying the F-16 guy is worse trained? LOL

And this is why I responded like this:

Stone Cold said:
So, you're....ahh, never mind, I looked at who I was responding to. Carry on.
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It's not even worth the effort to try to talk to you. This is sad, because I used to enjoy some of your posts, even if predictable. Now, not so much.
 
Don't forget, even if he does join and doesn't earn a flight slot, he can fly in the side, whenever he is done, he will have the post 9/11 gi bill will also cover his training too if used correctly!
 
Stone Cold said:
No, they don't, but just to humor you for one second...put a 1000TT CFI or whatever you want (172's or similar, heck boost it up to a Seminole, and compare them to a 1000TT F-16 pilot, which is in the very realm of possibility. You are still saying the F-16 guy is worse trained? LOL
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Times are accumulated differently from the civilian and military world. Of course I would take the F-16 guy at 1000 hours than a civilian trained pilot at 1000 hours. Not a fair comparison. However, once that civilian trained pilot gets a year or two under their belt at a regional, the line becomes a lot more fuzzier when making the transition to the next place. I probably had more actual time after six months in a Beech 1900 flying in the Northeast than one of those F-16 guys.

Also, once again, does the training in the military really prepare the pilot 'the best' to be in other environments of aviation? I don't think so.

Your 'schooling' in aviation goes beyond your initial ratings.

And this is why I responded like this:

It's not even worth the effort to try to talk to you. This is sad, because I used to enjoy some of your posts, even if predictable. Now, not so much.
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It is your loss, not mine. You are the one making a mountain out of a mole hill. Take a step back, breath, and see the point I am making.
 
matman said:
I went to ATP flight school. Did my degree online while working at a regional. Of course this was before they changed the pilot rules but I was YEARS ahead of my peers in flight hours and experience.
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No offense but that sounds boring. I did the whole "commuter school" thing and saved a little $$$ but if I could do it again I would have gone to a certain state school in Central Texas (@WacoFan ), majored in something non aviation related, and flown on the side.

Go live the college life. Experience football games, girls, parties, beer, etc... Get your ratings and instruct on the side. Just don't do anything stupid like get a DUI or MIP, but have fun and enjoy the time.

There's plenty of time to be a boring adult. Trust me on that one!
 
at1024 said:
No offense but that sounds boring. I did the whole "commuter school" thing and saved a little $$$ but if I could do it again I would have gone to a certain state school in Central Texas (@WacoFan ), majored in something non aviation related, and flown on the side.

Go live the college life. Experience football games, girls, parties, beer, etc... Get your ratings and instruct on the side. Just don't do anything stupid like get a DUI or MIP, but have fun and enjoy the time.

There's plenty of time to be a boring adult. Trust me on that one!
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Couldn't agree more... But there are far better places to experience the college life than Waco!
 
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