American Eagle told to play ball or become Comair-II

[MikeD]

Nope, Nope, Nope, and Hell no!

The most I got was, "Ah, I wouldn't want to go over to a company like that anyway," "It's not what it used to be ya know," "Their medical is really bad!" etc etc etc.

Lets be honest, all the airlines suck. And they're all good.

Point being, every company has its ups and downs: today's "place to be" airline, is tomorrows section 8 housing.

Like the military; when you really peel back the onion; you find that all the services suck, just for different reasons.

So all you can really do is work to make the best of where you are, and of where you eventually choose to hang your hat.

 

[bLizZuE]

YOU viewed all the initial details of the previous offer? That's news to me that those details were out. Last I knew rumors were out but the discussions were bound by Non Disclosure Agreements?

It was sent to the pilot group, the only way you wouldn't know is if you didn't read your email. I no longer do any union work other than minimal claim distribution work.

 

[bLizZuE]

The company THREATENED US.

That in itself tells you something- they're out of other places to go.

Threats are the refuge of the weak.
Leveraging fear means you have nothing real to bring to bear.

Pipe dream.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

It does and it doesn't. If the majors/lccs use it as a screener then you won't get a call until you have it because no human ever sees your application to check out your requirements. As far as what happens AFTER you get the 1000 (or whatever the magic screening number is)... who knows. That's up the the black magic of HR departments everywhere.

As far as how CC may have escaped to VX with so little time... At the time he was hired they were actually running out of applicants (who qualified with total time) because so many people failed their personality screening test they gave before inviting you to an interview. I failed it the first time I took it and was frozen out for a year. I sat next to the base CP several times commuting to work and back during that year and every time he commented on how few qualified applicants they were getting in to interviews. Right around then they lowered either the total time or PIC time requirement and then eventually dropped the PIC time requirement. After my year freeze I reapplied, retested and then finally interviewed and had about the highest times in my interview group and certainly the most PIC, which felt very strange considering I only about 3000 of TPIC at that point.

So little time? I thought 4,150TT was actually decent. Many pilots (Derg included) went to majors with 2000-3000 total time. Virgin historically required 5000TT and 1000TPIC because upgrades were extremely quick. For many pilots it was 6 months to 1 year. So they needed very experienced pilots to come in because they would be left seat quickly on an Airbus. Once end of 2011/early 2012 came, the growth had largely slowed down and anyone getting hired then would be looking at a 4-5 year upgrade (now even more with the growth slowdown). With that reality, they lowered the minimums to 4,000 hours total. Keep in mind, all legacies require only the minimum requirements in terms of flight time: 1,500 hrs eligible for an ATP. Spirit and Virgin were the highest requirements in the Part 121 world with 4,000 hrs total. Recently, Virgin has lowered the total time requirement to 2,500 hrs. It opens up the doors for more military guys and is also industry competitive with other major airlines.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

You are absolutely correct that you can't help out unless you are off probation. But, that plays nicely into my other point. The purchase of Pinnacle was announced in January 2007, so if you were hired in the fall of 2007, you came to Pinnacle knowing about the purchase. If you were so smart and knew at the time that Colgan was going to grow because we were subpar, had the Q400 orders, then why didn't you go to Colgan?

I made my bed with 9E. Beggars can't be choosers. But I had no way of knowing they would continually down-pressure ALPA 9E while growing tremendously the non-union Colgan. Chalk it up to a lack of experience with how management works.

Well, you will need to excuse me to remind you that before we go down that road, your merger committee wanted to staple the Colgan guys.

Absolutely they were the biggest idiots in the 3-way mess.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Nope. Funny story... kind of... now that years later it worked out for me elsewhere.

I went in to the morning group interview session, very well prepped by the CP I knew as well as a few other people, and hit all the right notes. Then, after lunch I went into the first of two 1 on 2 interviews. I was first sent to an HR guy (Frank if any VXers are playing along at home) and the CP Mark. I was in there for all of maybe 15 minutes. A few logbook questions from Mark and a few HR questions from Frank. After that Frank says I am good to go and asks if I have everything with me. I ask him what about the second 1 on 2 panel I am supposed to do and he says I'm all set. I tell him that in that case, my coat is still upstairs in the break room so he walks me back upstairs, I get my coat, and we walk back to the elevator. He asks me how I think it went to which I said I think it went really well. He says he thinks so too and that he thinks I'll be back here really soon and that they are going to do phone calls in 2 weeks. He then puts me on the elevator, pushes the first floor button and says thanks so much for coming in.

One week later I get a thanks but no thanks email. So I email one of the guys I know there (a Fleet Standards captain) to tell him thanks for all his help but that it didn't work out and that I'll try again in a year. I get a very terse email back saying that I walked out of the interview and no showed the second 1 on 2 panel so of course they can't hire me.

Go figure. I went after that job for 4 years and it ended like that.

Yikes! Very sad to hear this! Maybe a few phone calls could have clarified the situation. When was this, are you still interested in VX?

Where do you fly right now?

 

[BobDDuck]

Yikes! Very sad to hear this! Maybe a few phone calls could have clarified the situation. When was this, are you still interested in VX?

Where do you fly right now?

This happened in the Summer of 2012 I think. Several people did try to go to bat for me, but from what I was told the decision ultimately rested with Mark and he choose to not give me another shot. It's ok though, I'm happy on my little island now and it's all water under the bridge. I told myself the day after I got the rejection email that someday I could laugh about it and I can... it just took a while.

 

[Seggy]

I have to say, when I interviewed at Virgin America, it was a great experience. When @BobDDuck told me what happened, I was floored.

Anyway, soooo happy @BobDDuck got the practice at Virgin America to end up where he is now .

You never know what curveballs life throws at you.

 

[HRDiva]

Once upon a time pre 9/11, DH interviewed at JetBlue with 11,000 hours and gobs of TPIC. He got a rejection letter addressed to someone else. We never knew if the person who was rejected got his rejection or if they got an acceptance with DH's name on it. He never pursued it because he was hired elsewhere the same week after interviewing that day without having to wait months to hear about phase one or two or blah, blah!

 

[roundout]

We turned down a deal for airplanes, and they went to PSA. Company then returned with a significantly worse deal. Explain this "leverage" to me.

Was it a deal? Don't we already have a deal? Does our existing (Bankruptcy Court Approved, UCC Approved) contract not cover the eventuality of the company wanting new aircraft at some point?

Let's say you buy a car. You pick the car you want and agree on a sales price with the seller and financing terms with the bank. 6 months later you get a phone call: "Look, we want you to have this bigger, fancier car. Your payments are going to increase 50% starting next month, but we'll deliver the car a year from now. If you don't agree, we'll come repossess your current car." What would you do?

 

[dvtpilot]

I'd laugh at the worst attempt at a nigerian bank scheme I've heard of yet.

Hang up, drink beer, tell the story to the friends starting with "Get this....you'll never believe this idiot that called me and THOUGHT....."

 

[gotWXdagain]

Let's say you buy a car. You pick the car you want and agree on a sales price with the seller and financing terms with the bank. 6 months later you get a phone call: "Look, we want you to have this bigger, fancier car. Your payments are going to increase 50% starting next month, but we'll deliver the car a year from now. If you don't agree, we'll come repossess your current car." What would you do?

Sue the bank.

 

[bLizZuE]

Was it a deal? Don't we already have a deal? Does our existing (Bankruptcy Court Approved, UCC Approved) contract not cover the eventuality of the company wanting new aircraft at some point?

Let's say you buy a car. You pick the car you want and agree on a sales price with the seller and financing terms with the bank. 6 months later you get a phone call: "Look, we want you to have this bigger, fancier car. Your payments are going to increase 50% starting next month, but we'll deliver the car a year from now. If you don't agree, we'll come repossess your current car." What would you do?

I think you have me confused with management. Also, you can't refute that we turned down an offer, and that offer has been replaced with a substantially less attractive offer. If we had leverage, wouldn't that offer have improved?

 

[BobDDuck]

I think you have me confused with management. Also, you can't refute that we turned down an offer, and that offer has been replaced with a substantially less attractive offer. If we had leverage, wouldn't that offer have improved?

Honest question here.

And I'll preface it by saying, people can accuse me of not caring because I "escaped" all they want, but the truth is my mantra the entire 8+ years I was stuck at a regional was "leave it better than I found it".

So, with that said, why do people think they (as in "regional pilots") have any sort of leverage, even assuming everybody was to have held the line?

 

[Firebird2XC]

Pipe dream.

Since the last relatively benign comment was deleted, I called you out for a definitive lack of... Shall we just says 'guts', this time?

It rhymes with what I said you lacked. You can figure it out.

 

[derg]

Since the last relatively benign comment was deleted, I called you out for a definitive lack of... Shall we just says 'guts', this time?

It rhymes with what I said you lacked. You can figure it out.

I fully disagree. You've reported less.

I don't mean to sound like an angry pimp, but don't try me woman!

 

[hcaeborev]

Honest question here.


why do people think they (as in "regional pilots") have any sort of leverage, even assuming everybody was to have held the line?

Because of the pilot shortage that those same exact people said didn't exist like 5 minutes ago.

Now that it suits their agenda it's real.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I fully disagree. You've reported less.

I don't mean to sound like an angry pimp, but don't try me woman!

I will shank you to death in a prison shower and make angry love to your corpse.

Bourbon?

 

[derg]

I will shank you to death in a prison shower and make angry love to your corpse.

Bourbon?

I find myself strangely aroused.

Xanax?

 

[Firebird2XC]

I find myself strangely aroused.

Xanax?

Lightweight. When I go on a date I roofie myself just to see if I can beat the clock and get the hole dug before she chews through the duct tape.