Behind the Southwest Airlines Culture

"Stick to facts, and for that matter....current facts."

Nothin' wrong with old facts. If you don't have a problem with history a la what Gulfstream academy was back then you weren't paying attention. Do you support paying for a job as a way for a pax airline to hire qualified flight crews? Colgan was a fine little airline 20 years ago but they sacrificed safety in the name of growth and ended up a bottom feeder. They became the step child of "how low can you go" with respect to pay and standards. It bit them in the butt and the rest is history. Hey Mike, shut the thread down if you find it too much like APC. Your a mod. But don't tell me to shut up cause "history doesn't matter". It matters a lot cause it will repeat itself.
I think on this forum the "don't look into the past" crowd sometimes forget that many of us enjoy history, and feel like if we learn enough of it we get a better picture of how the world really is.

Optimism is great, but good lord, there's a time and a place for puking rainbows- weddings and funerals. The rest of us, when done paying the bills, take honest enjoyment out of learning about history and seeing the world today and tomorrow through a historic perspective.
 
And without buying your program, would you have gotten an interview? That's paying to play.



Sure it could. If they had done exactly as you suggested and let people negotiate their worth in the seat, you'd have been making less than most CFIs. Why? Because when you got hired at 9E, a LOT of CFIs had better quality time. And about 2-3 times your total time. You had a couple hundred hours and an interview you (by your own admission) bought. Now you come on here and preach about negotiating your worth? I'm sure management would have LOVED to have a line around the door of guys ready to fly for $16 an hour after shelling out cash for their interview. Let's face facts. You wouldn't have gone to an ExpressJet or better paying regional. JetU didn't offer that in their "Buy a interview" package.

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I just hate it when people revise their own histories to make themselves sound better years down the road. At least guys like ATN admit they messed up. You're trying to re-write your history by saying you didn't really pay to get a leg up. Truth: if you didn't pay to go to JetU, you very, very likely would not have been hired with the time you had.
He's just trying to rationalize himself, to himself. CC low self confidence has led him to do this publicly, like a stereotypical teenager does on facebook, because when enough people engage him in his trollery (not a word?) it distracts him from his real problem. He looks around, and finds himself unhappy with his life.

In other words, CC is all like WhAA WHAA!!!
 
He's just trying to rationalize himself, to himself. CC low self confidence has led him to do this publicly, like a stereotypical teenager does on facebook, because when enough people engage him in his trollery (not a word?) it distracts him from his real problem. He looks around, and finds himself unhappy with his life.

In other words, CC is all like WhAA WHAA!!!

I can't speak to someone's inner motivation or feeling, as I'm not them. My only concern is that is the information being posted by him factual, or not? If it's not, it should be easy to refute, I'd imagine. It's interesting subject matter, so it'd be nice to know what the facts really are, whether it's one side, the other side, or somewhere in the middle.
 
I can't speak to someone's inner motivation or feeling, as I'm not them. My only concern is that is the information being posted by him factual, or not? If it's not, it should be easy to refute, I'd imagine. It's interesting subject matter, so it'd be nice to know what the facts really are, whether it's one side, the other side, or somewhere in the middle.
You haven't seen that debate going on? I have. CC does his best to be a jerk, he destroys his own credibility, and as a result there are a percentage of people on the board and in life that will look for his motives when he says/does anything. As far as mod'ing him or not, I don't care, not my problem. He's a bag of tools, he will be treated as such by me. He is responsible for his content and everyone knows exactly who he is.

I was simply agreeing with Yoda's perspective on recent history (or what you an others seem to call ancient history)and I wanted to expand on it.
 
Here's my perspective. Cherokee shoots himself in the foot 10x/day and largely, I'll skim for compliance with the rules of the website and discount everything else.

Some people make deleterious decisions and want to brew attention. If 90% of the population respond "B" but the person in question wants to hear "A", they're going to strive for a much deeper sample to hear more "A" responses.

10 people in the sample, 9 "that was a dumb decision" and 1 "good job!"

1000 people in the sample, 900 "that was a dumb decision" and 100 "good job!" responses.

The fact that few have any professional respect and continue to express that doesn't necessarily matter. As long as the conversation expands and grows popularity will the person get what he's looking for.

It's a classic case of narcissism ("rules and professional insight don't apply to me") coupled with with professional low self-esteem issues ("I need people to talk to me and validate me"). The more attention you give him means that he's able to continue to discount the negative and collect any semblance of positive attention, buss it together and say, "Look! I have found affirmation!"

Gosh, I just described Miley Cyrus. Ooh, *light bulb*.
 
Gosh, I just described Miley Cyrus. Ooh, *light bulb*.
I think she's in it for the quick buck and she'll go away in a couple years unless she really is hooked on the drugs she's singing about in the songs... in that case I'll be wrong but it'll be the equivalent of the rapture being real and it won't matter anyway.

CC does this because he needs to see a shrink. Getting likes on facebook or JC won't pay for his treatment.
 
I think she's in it for the quick buck and she'll go away in a couple years unless she really is hooked on the drugs she's singing about in the songs... in that case I'll be wrong but it'll be the equivalent of the rapture being real and it won't matter anyway.

CC does this because he needs to see a shrink. Getting likes on facebook or JC won't pay for his treatment.

I can't say I'd disagree that a number of people on the forum could benefit from psychotherapy.

The challenge is to not get dragged into the morass.

Remember, he doesn't want your negative attention, he absolutely needs it. Like a low self esteem woman in hot pants trolling construction sites at lunchtime.
 
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I think she's in it for the quick buck and she'll go away in a couple years unless she really is hooked on the drugs she's singing about in the songs... in that case I'll be wrong but it'll be the equivalent of the rapture being real and it won't matter anyway.

CC does this because he needs to see a shrink. Getting likes on facebook or JC won't pay for his treatment.

I dont dog in the fight, but a Quick buck....I say hogwash.....She's been in it for quite awhile now...Hannah Montana, etc.....doubt she is going away anytime soon.....She's been around more tha her Achy, Breaky, Heart dad.....
 
I dont dog in the fight, but a Quick buck....I say hogwash.....She's been in it for quite awhile now...Hannah Montana, etc.....doubt she is going away anytime soon.....She's been around more tha her Achy, Breaky, Heart dad.....

Billy Ray Cyrus is a SAINT!
 
How did I go from a speech about the intersection of human psychology and online venues to me craving beer and nachos?
 
I think on this forum the "don't look into the past" crowd sometimes forget that many of us enjoy history, and feel like if we learn enough of it we get a better picture of how the world really is.

Optimism is great, but good lord, there's a time and a place for puking rainbows- weddings and funerals. The rest of us, when done paying the bills, take honest enjoyment out of learning about history and seeing the world today and tomorrow through a historic perspective.

That's why I was a history major!
 
I dont dog in the fight, but a Quick buck....I say hogwash.....She's been in it for quite awhile now...Hannah Montana, etc.....doubt she is going away anytime soon.....She's been around more tha her Achy, Breaky, Heart dad.....
It's typical Disney Princess Syndrome. Look at Britney and Lindsey Lohan. What do these three have in common? All were child stars churned out by the Disney machine and sold as wholesome family entertainment. Now that they're out on their own, they head in the extreme opposite direction to distance themselves.
 
This is getting good! Some good mudslinging and good points on both sides. If I say #Eagle three times fast, will firebird get in on the action too?
 
I just still love the PFT/PFJ discussion. People do realize quite a few of those "lifers" at regionals were part of those schemes in the mid 90's, right? "Most" regionals at the time had pay to play schemes (PFT after you had 2500/500), which was finally abolished in the late 90's I believe (I was in the "haze grey canoe club" and not paying attention to the actual time). Then, Gulfstream continued, along with a few smaller operators like Eagle Jet (or whomever AMF was operating with), and the angst grew more for Gulfstream than all the other people who did PFT operations.

This is one of the reasons I still disagree with SW operating with the requirement for the 73 type. Of course, it is different than the 90's PFT, where you went to training with a specific company and had a guaranteed job (prior interview with the company) or guaranteed interview after training with a specific company.
 
I saw this thread had jumped to 7 pages and started reading it thinking I may learn some new facts that change my mostly negative opinion of WN. I learned a lot, but nothing about WN. Lol.
 
And without buying your program, would you have gotten an interview? That's paying to play.

You always pay to get to regional. Nothing is free. The route you choose cost the equivalent of 4 more checkrides, Comm-SE, CFI, -I, ME-I. That's thousands of dollars. More power to you and the very helpful CFI route (which I think is honorable). However at the end of the day, if you were to tally up what I paid in my career, it's be pretty much the same as what you paid. We both ended up at 9E and then at JBLU/VX. So in the end, what did it matter? No one cared or asked where you came from prior to a regional.

Also, in 2007, some regionals were hiring with just a Comm/ME/Inst rating and 250-350 hours. If it wasn't 9E it would have been some other airline with or without the program.


Sure it could. If they had done exactly as you suggested and let people negotiate their worth in the seat, you'd have been making less than most CFIs. Why? Because when you got hired at 9E, a LOT of CFIs had better quality time. And about 2-3 times your total time. You had a couple hundred hours and an interview you (by your own admission) bought. Now you come on here and preach about negotiating your worth? I'm sure management would have LOVED to have a line around the door of guys ready to fly for $16 an hour after shelling out cash for their interview. Let's face facts. You wouldn't have gone to an ExpressJet or better paying regional. JetU didn't offer that in their "Buy a interview" package.

No, because I saw that LOA with the published rates that management was willing to offer us. Not your hypothetical what-if. Management will only have a line of pilots in what supply and demand provide. If pilots are showing up for $16/hr (as they are at Great Lakes), there are too many pilots. When airlines are paying Airbus pilots $250,000 to fly as Captain in China, there is a shortage there. Also, who is a pilot to judge someone for not going to XJT. You didn't either when you had the choice.


I don't really have a dog in this fight. I just hate it when people revise their own histories to make themselves sound better years down the road. At least guys like ATN admit they messed up. You're trying to re-write your history by saying you didn't really pay to get a leg up. Truth: if you didn't pay to go to JetU, you very, very likely would not have been hired with the time you had.

I didn't revise history to sound better. It is what it is. It was a risk no doubt, but one I took and it worked out okay. Sadly the same cannot be said for many others who did attempt that place only to have it close on them. Anyway, what exactly is your defintion of "pay to get a leg up." Unless you are including ALL rj programs (including ALLATPs) then you don't have a point. From the sounds of you, anyone who didn't CFI their way to the regionals is a sellout and PFTer.
 
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