Looks Like the Thunderbird's and Blue Angels are Scheduling Shows Again

[A Life Aloft]

An American tradition is saying the Pledge of Allegiance before school or Fireworks on the 4th of July. A majority of Americans probably don't give a rat's ass about the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds.

Also, there are better ways to recruit than flying these planes around.

 

[Seggy]

We need warm bodies. Airshows are fantastic marketing.

if not for the air show at Lemoore, I probably wouldn't have gotten into aviation. And you all would be sitting there disenfranchised after reading how tttttttrble the business is over at flightinfo.com

Not saying air shows are the issue. Just the waste of putting together a demonstration team like the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds. Have a C-130 taxi in reverse with a 'regular' F-18 doing a six minute demo overhead. A lot cheaper.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Here's an idea for the Blues. Paint them gray and make them an Expeditionary Squadron. Let them perform all over the world while remaining combat-ready.

I believe that's called a "show of force," no? It's also what carrier air wings primarily do nowadays.

There is that feeling among many; especially now when sequestration is causing problems keeping our combat forces trained and equipped and ready; people wondering why these same $$$ are going towards something that doesn't have a direct correlation to combat readiness. Provide for the combat forces first, then allocate money to "extras" such as demonstration teams.

As much as I like a good airshow, I can't help but agree.

 

[MikeD]

The only problem I have is when I see and experience combat units having broken aircraft or waiting for parts or not getting sorties, all due to $$$; but we must keep these pretty jets flying. While a good recruiting tool, its kind of the same as people who don't want the local military base closed when its no longer needed, because of how it will affect the local economy. It's not the job of a military base to support the local economy, its there to support national defense needs. When a base is determined to no longer be needed and is slated for closure, that is indeed sad and a loss of history; but that also fiscal reality. Any economic boost a military base generates to a local economy is icing on the cake, not its reason for existance.

Yes there is a TON of fraud, waste and abuse in the military that could be curtailed; I definiately get that. But not all of those affect the combat forces directly or are the same "pot of money".

While I too enjoy seeing an aerial demonstration, I come from a combat background. And in these times of severe fiscal belt tightening, we can't spend money willy-nilly.

Loops to music, does not put bombs on target.

 

[Nark]

They are an effective, almost to the point of extremely effective recruiting tool. The cost benefit analysis probably state they aren't a wasteful expenditures.

Loops to music, does not put bombs on target.

No, but it does open the door to the pimple-faced kid who now wants to help the fight. He goes down to the local snake oil salesmen, saying you too can fly the F-18! sign here. Next thing you know, he's out on a WESTPAC float, arming the MK82's while the college educated NROTC bubbas are doing the cat launches.

He decided to go to school on the Tuition Assistance to get "Chief" off his back. And voila, a few years later he's pinning on those wings of gold in Pensacola.

 

[MikeD]

No, but it does open the door to the pimple-faced kid who now wants to help the fight. He goes down to the local snake oil salesmen, saying you too can fly the F-18! sign here. Next thing you know, he's out on a WESTPAC float, arming the MK82's while the college educated NROTC bubbas are doing the cat launches.

He decided to go to school on the Tuition Assistance to get "Chief" off his back. And voila, a few years later he's pinning on those wings of gold in Pensacola.

Agree. And Im not blaming the demonstration teams themselves, they're not the direct ones "stealing" money from the combat forces; the problem goes far higher than that with the Pentagon and Congress. Those two entities are the ones who need to ensure the combat forces are funded for the training and equipment they need, before they put funding towards things like demo teams. Fund the "need to have", before the "nice to have".

Realistically speaking, demo teams fall under "nice to have". And Im talking full-scale demo teams that are full units in and of themselves.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Yes there is a TON of fraud, waste and abuse in the military that could be curtailed; I definiately get that. But not all of those affect the combat forces directly or are the same "pot of money".

According to the GAO, the 96 MDAPs from FY2008 collectively ran $296 billion over budget.

If you want symbolic measures, I guess the Blues and Thunderbirds would be a good place to start.

 

[derg]

Not saying air shows are the issue. Just the waste of putting together a demonstration team like the Blue Angels/Thunderbirds. Have a C-130 taxi in reverse with a 'regular' F-18 doing a six minute demo overhead. A lot cheaper.

Remember, they're not specifically cutting an 'extra check' to run an air show.

 

[Malko]

Remember, they're not specifically cutting an 'extra check' to run an air show.

Word....

These pilots would be flying, training, and getting paid whether they are burning holes in the sky at Mankato or operating in support of Operation Southern Watch...And they are not flying loaded with weapons..

 

[MikeD]

My proposal with regards to fiscal realities?

Combine the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels into one single US Military aerial demo team with a different name. Can even have dissimilar aircraft: 3 F-16s and 3 F/A-18s, combined into one team.

 

[derg]

My proposal with regards to fiscal realities?

Combine the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels into one single US Military aerial demo team with a different name. Can even have dissimilar aircraft: 3 F-16s and 3 F/A-18s, combined into one team.

But wouldn't that be like allowing the Army to fly it's own CAP? Your USAF buddies would flip their lids.

 

[Seggy]

My proposal with regards to fiscal realities?

Combine the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels into one single US Military aerial demo team with a different name. Can even have dissimilar aircraft: 3 F-16s and 3 F/A-18s, combined into one team.

That would probably be negative recruiting for the Air Force as people would see they couldn't keep up with the Navy.......

 

[MikeD]

But wouldn't that be like allowing the Army to fly it's own CAP? Your USAF buddies would flip their lids.

Oh my idea has a TON of enemies and backlash. But it's a reasonable fiscal compromise that keeps a demo team, while not sacrificing money for the combat forces. Sequestration is law, whether we like it or not, and money is tight.

 

[MikeD]

Or cut the Navy and AF altogether, and give the Army T-37s and the mandate to create the only US military aerial demo team.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

My proposal with regards to fiscal realities?

Combine the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels into one single US Military aerial demo team with a different name. Can even have dissimilar aircraft: 3 F-16s and 3 F/A-18s, combined into one team.

Let them fly T-34's. Lima Lima puts on a nice show.

 

[MikeD]

I honestly think the Army should do it, that way the AF and Navy cant have a rivalry. The Army already has had a demo team, the Silver Eagles, back in the 1970s. Give them boneyard T-37 jets or T-2 jets, paint them in Army colors, and they get the job.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

 

[MikeD]

 

[H46Bubba]

Blue Angels actually fall under CNATRA (Chief of Naval Air Training) as far as funding. Any operation such as Afghanistan or humanitarian operation falls under DOD funding and not the individual service's pot of money. I used to manage my last squadron's fiscal operations budget, so I know first hand about spending funds and the various pots of money operational expenditures get charged to! The various services have pulled the wool over the public's eyes in regards to budgetary funding. They want to scare the public into thinking there is no funding for operational commitments and they will slow down operations states side and cancelled air shows commitments to make the public feel the burn. The Blues were flying several practice flights a week, but just a little less than they were if they were out performing shows. They also saved a bit of money by not having to travel around to the various shows as well. The DOD and the various services are REALLY good at hiding and spending money.

I believe that the Blues and the Thunderbirds do a great service for their respective services. The Navy Recruiting Command and CNATRA consider the Blues as their number 1 recruiting tool.

 

[USMCmech]

Also, there are better ways to recruit than flying these planes around.

You know this how exactly?