Behind the Southwest Airlines Culture

Bandit_Driver said:
For those complaining about prices. Are you comparing apples to apples and adding the baggage fees etc into the "cheaper" price.
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Sure. When I went to NJC, Southwest's cheapest flight pair on SFO-LAS was $50 r/t more than Virgin America(the rest were $75-100 more!). That means if I flew VX and checked a bag for $25 each way, I'd end up paying the same for Southwest. So for the same price I get a confirmed seat next to my girlfriend, flight times I actually want, a very comfortable and cool cabin, and the ability to listen some of my favorite songs from high school while watching epic mealtime. Don't know how the "Southwest Effect" is still a thing, the only advantage they really have is frequency on some of their routes, which is likely why they're now trying to advertise themselves as a buisiness airline rather than leisure.

Just sayin'. :)
 
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ChasenSFO said:
Sure. When I went to NJC, Southwest's cheapest flight pair on SFO-LAS was $50 r/t more than Virgin America(the rest were $75-100 more!). That means if I flew VX and checked a bag for $25 each way, I'd end up paying the same for Southwest. So for the same price I get a confirmed seat next to my girlfriend, flight times I actually want, a very comfortable and cool cabin, and the ability to listen some of my favorite songs from high school while watching epic mealtime. Don't know how the "Southwest Effect" is still a thing, the only advantage they really have is frequency on some of their routes, which is likely why they're now trying to advertise themselves as a buisiness airline rather than leisure.

Just sayin'. :)
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You can't be a business airline without having first class. The free upgrades for people that travel a lot really makes a big difference.
 
z987k said:
You can't be a business airline without having first class. The free upgrades for people that travel a lot really makes a big difference.
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Shhhh, they'll hear you!

:)

But seriously, they'll need to figure out what they want to be. If they want to market like a legacy now and have standard uniforms, then they should operate like one. If they want to keep advertising low fares, then they need to be an LCC and actually charge and provide less than the legacy carriers and majors. Right now, they're almost having an identity crisis.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Sure. When I went to NJC, Southwest's cheapest flight pair on SFO-LAS was $50 r/t more than Virgin America(the rest were $75-100 more!). That means if I flew VX and checked a bag for $25 each way, I'd end up paying the same for Southwest. So for the same price I get a confirmed seat next to my girlfriend, flight times I actually want, a very comfortable and cool cabin, and the ability to listen some of my favorite songs from high school while watching epic mealtime. Don't know how the "Southwest Effect" is still a thing, the only advantage they really have is frequency on some of their routes, which is likely why they're now trying to advertise themselves as a buisiness airline rather than leisure.

Just sayin'. :)
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Just checking.
 
slough said:
I don't like southwest as a paying passenger, they remind me of Allegiant, but Allegiant actually has cheap prices for the no frills service. Southwest has gotten too expensive for the product they offer in my opinion.
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There are good deals to be had with SWA, you just have to find them. I'm about to hop on a flight right now that cost me $130 total. My last few flights with them have cost me about the same amount.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I made it about a paragraph in before I started gagging. I threw up when I got to the words "Golden Rule."



@Derg I. Will. Cut you.
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Let me put on my TapOut shirt, run down the basement, reboot my computer, crack open a Mountain Dew, pray to my Metroliner model and type "I will curb stomp you!" :)

I WILL LEAVE YOU AT AN OUTSTATION BECAUSE, WELL, I GOT OTHER PRIORITIES.
 
A little bit of a follow up to this post.

Today, I got two messages from folks I haven't talked to in a few years that are currently at Southwest (one was hired at Southwest, one was hired at AirTran and is not @SWA_Pilot, errr, I mean @ATN_Pilot) asking me how things are going at my current place and asking me for a LOR. These are good guys who got in touch with me today which got me thinking....

Back in 2006, 2007, and early 2008, guys were falling over themselves, trying to get down to Higher Power for a few days, plopping down $10,000, plus vacation time to get that coveted 737 type Southwest wanted. Some guys took it even farther, wearing the Southwest flag tie, and doing EVERYTHING they could at work to try to create a Southwest culture within themselves, which didn't work so well on a hot Slaab going from IAH to ACT in July working for a horrific company. I know probably three dozen guys that did that, and only 4 or so I got hired by SWA. The other 32 now have to explain on interviews why they have a 737 type, but no time in the aircraft, and why they are all of a sudden NOW applying at a company when they didn't for the last 7 years. Yet, those folks would look at me thinking I was 'crazy' for having zero desire to go to Southwest.

I have to say, before I started flying professionally, thanks to this website and community, it opened up my eyes seeing that if @Derg can make it at SouthernJets, I didn't need to be engaged in this group think that was occuring at Colgan about how 'supposedly great' Southwest was going to be career wise and it allowed me to forge my own path. A lot of guys got burned by putting all their eggs in the Southwest basket.

DON'T do that for Southwest or any company down the road. Have preferences where you want to work, but keep all options open.
 
Seggy said:
Yet, those folks would look at me thinking I was 'crazy' for having zero desire to go to Southwest.
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Back in 2000 when I was researching jobs at the airlines, United was THE lifetime career destination. Why anyone would be foolish enough to go fly for UPS or SWA was a total mystery. Five years later, United was shredding contracts and dumping pensions. Everyone that possibly could was dying to get an interview at SWA or one of the cargo airlines. I myself said that for me, it was SWA, Cargo, or corporate.

Today, SWA has a 20 year time to upgrade. Meanwhile, AA is looking at a tidal wave of retirements.

The point of all this is that whatever dream job you have at the start of your career, don't lock yourself into it because it could very well possibly become a nightmare when you reach it.


I like SWA's culture. Regardless of what outsiders say, most of their employees really feel like SWA is a special place to work. This attitude does create a small but noticeable difference in how they treat customers. Having said that, every organization serves itself first, and the individuals second. I have no doubt that today, there are some SWA pilots who wish they had stayed at Eagle and had a flow through to AA.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You wouldn't if you had to experience it first hand.
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I'm speaking as a customer and a (former) jumpseater. I have no doubt that there are some warts there that are more visible from the inside.

I am proud to have been a part of the USMC, but the Corps is hardly perfect either.


Despite that, I do not take your criticisms of SWA at face value. Your bias against SWA was well entrenched long before the merger happened.
 
USMCmech said:
I'm speaking as a customer and a (former) jumpseater.
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That gives you (or anybody) about zero credibility to talk about a places culture. A jumpseater sees the operation from the point of view of how that company's employees want to be treated. OF COURSE every gate agent and FA is going to bend over backwards to help a fellow industry employee get home (as they should) because THEY want to be treated the same way. That has absolutely nothing to do with how THEIR company treats them. A customer sees a finely crafted (and at some places not so finely crafted) model of the company, prepped and put together by a highly paid marketing and branding department. Again, that's has nothing to do with how a company treats their employees. The only thing I'll give you is that an employee that is treated well by their employer is MORE likely to turn around and treat their customers well, but it's no guarantee, and, it works in reverse too. Just because an employee is treated poorly by their employer, doesn't mean they will treat their customers poorly also.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You wouldn't if you had to experience it first hand.
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I would like to know why? This is a serious question. I understand you don't like SWA, I'm sure you have elaborated before, but I don't want to sift through thousands of posts to see what you said previously. Just sum it up in a few sentences if you want.

The few pilots I know there are very happy, so I'm curious why you feel differently.
 
staledog said:
I would like to know why? This is a serious question. I understand you don't like SWA, I'm sure you have elaborated before, but I don't want to sift through thousands of posts to see what you said previously. Just sum it up in a few sentences if you want.
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They threatened to put us all the street if we didn't cave on their seniority cramdown. See, it only took one sentence. :)

The few pilots I know there are very happy, so I'm curious why you feel differently.
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The pilots you know are "real" Southwest, as they would say. They haven't felt the sting yet. They will soon enough, and then it's going to dawn on them that Gary and Mike are not like Herb. The AirTran pilots have already learned that.
 
I wouldn't want to work there, either, cause those guys work waaay too hard but I sure don't get the foaming at the mouth anti-SWA attitude posed by a few. SWA F/A's and gate agents have absolutely ZERO chance of ANY benefit from being nice and professional to a UPS pilot. UPS doesn't play that game. Yet, I see front line SWA folks go above and beyond compared to how other airlines treat me, personally. There is no doubt SWA's success over the years (not so much now) was at the expense of the big airlines AND they have in independent pilot union (not ALPA). Any chance those things attribute to a lot of the bashing from certain folks here?
 
DE727UPS said:
"Why are you trying to always make ALPA look bad?"

Always? That seems overblown......
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Right, I went back and deleted my post.

Honestly, I think Southwest just got lucky that they had a guy like Herb running things. He genuinely cared about his employees. An independent union had nothing to do with the success of Southwest.
 
I worked on the ramp at SWA for a lot of years. To hear my buddies that are still there talk,it's not even close to the same airline today it was 10 years ago. It's more about cutting costs than it is about putting their employees first, which is how it was when i was there. Happy employees translated to happy, RETURNING passengers. Now, it seems cheap costs mean profits. Passengers and employees be damned. In short, it's just like the rest of the airlines now. It went from maverick to conformist in less than a decade. I wouldn't give up my gig at Blue to go to SWA right now. Doesn't work for me. Things may change down the road, but it would have to be a BIG change for me to jumps ship.
 
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