How to waste an education and Navy flight school slot at Disney World...

Houston said:
I'd be the last to defend his actions, but gosh, who hasn't done something really stupid in their life and gotten lucky that it just didn't bite them. Hopefully he has a chain of command that explores below the surface and takes a serious look into what can be done to salvage someone who obviously has a lot to offer.
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There are about 10000000 billion dudes in his shoes at any given moment. I seriously doubt the Navy helo community is hurting for an alcoholic ENS who beats women in his off duty time. There is no chance that this guy will be retained in the program, and I would support that. I've seen a lot of dumb stuff in my time, and have done dumb stuff myself, but nothing like this. There is no forgiveness for guys that get drunk out in town and get violent with civilians. Much less when their actions are unprovoked.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
MMCO's are often LDO's (or MMCPO's). Other MCO's can come from the SUPPO (ASUPPO) ranks, if things haven't changed that much.
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I've never seen a SUPPO in a VFA squadron. We have like 7 pounders, 0 of which right now are non-LDO. Until recently, we did have one non-LDO pounder who was A/C Divo and then QAO, but those are all JO/pilot jobs as well most of the time. Never seen an MMCPO fill anything but MMCPO, but I have seen the LDO's generally tour the gamut of AMO/MCO/MMCO jobs in ~ 6-9 month stints, filling DIVO jobs as needed on the side.
 
///AMG said:
I've never seen a SUPPO in a VFA squadron. We have like 7 pounders, 0 of which right now are non-LDO. Until recently, we did have one non-LDO pounder who was A/C Divo and then QAO, but those are all JO/pilot jobs as well most of the time. Never seen an MMCPO fill anything but MMCPO, but I have seen the LDO's generally tour the gamut of AMO/MCO/MMCO jobs in ~ 6-9 month stints, filling DIVO jobs as needed on the side.
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I think @H46Bubba was referring to SUPPOs and NASOs, not MMCOs. He was talking about washouts being shipped out to Supply Corps School, I think.

Yes, squadron MMCOs are usually LDOs.
 
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///AMG said:
There are about 10000000 billion dudes in his shoes at any given moment. I seriously doubt the Navy helo community is hurting for an alcoholic ENS who beats women in his off duty time. There is no chance that this guy will be retained in the program, and I would support that. I've seen a lot of dumb stuff in my time, and have done dumb stuff myself, but nothing like this. There is no forgiveness for guys that get drunk out in town and get violent with civilians. Much less when their actions are unprovoked.
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Hopefully his commander is wise enough not to draw conclusions on such serious subjects based on nothing more than a newspaper clipping.
 
Hacker15e said:
I'd be surprised if there wasn't also something else going on that isn't a part of this news report; drugs, alcohol addiction...something that inspired this event other than just being a hothead.

My guess is that even the charges as-is (even without a conviction) will result in an Article 15 for something like Conduct Unbecoming, which will be very difficult for our young O-1 to recover from career-wise.
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Or "Captain's Mast" for all you squiddy !
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I was there Saturday. Everybody who goes to the "Food and Wine Festival" goes there to get drunk (and eat good food). I was drunk. Thousands of other people were drunk. However, none of us kicked anyone's ass, except apparently this guy.
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Yep, a good time as always. I'm disappointed I missed this excitement. Would have made the really long lines Saturday more bearable.

It doesn't have to be the food and wine festival though, even when the festival isn't going on it's fun to get drunk around the world in the world showcase in EPCOT. Then you go take a nap on Spaceship Earth or Universe of Energy. :D
 
On the one hand I do feel for him if this ends up destroying his life, but on the flip side I tried hard to get where i am and wanted to be a naval aviator and if this guy gets a break i'll be pissed. Especially since I've never been in trouble with the law and I don't have his opportunity.
 
Houston said:
I'd certainly agree that true personalities bubble to the surface when drinking. Some get mean, some become jovial, and some just take a nap.

Your view that he has nothing to offer Naval aviation may be correct, but I certainly hope someone who has to make that decision for real looks into it a lot deeper than what we can see by reading a newspaper article. A human is a terrible thing to waste.
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It's an interesting thing to ponder, given that his job, should he have gone on to an illustrious military fighter, bomber or attack career, precisely would have been to waste humans.
 
Houston said:
Hopefully his commander is wise enough not to draw conclusions on such serious subjects based on nothing more than a newspaper clipping.
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Based on my experiences in the "current" military, I find that highly unlikely, unfortunately. Lots of knee-jerk over-reaction to incomplete stories, and then no desire to later clean up when the whole story comes out (especially if that initial reaction was wrong).

That has been one of the most significant changes in the USAF, at least, in my career span. As a Lieutenant, I know many a junior officer who did something dumb and whose Commander absolutely nailed their ass to the wall...but not using any techniques that would leave lasting career marks. In fact, most of the time the Commanders would protect their guy from further ass-railing from higher up the chain. If there was continued idiocy from said junior officer, then the punishments would start to really hurt, but even some pretty big initial mistakes could be recovered from.

Not so today; in the blue service, Commanders are eager to show their bosses that they "mean business" and "ruthlessly enforce standards". They are more than happy to massively over-punish mistakes; something that would have warranted an ass-chewing standing at attention in front of the boss' desk back in the day could result in something like NJP today.

Getting to be that vaunted "one mistake Air Force" that absolutely everyone says does not exist. In fact, it is even becoming the "perception of one mistake" rather than actually having done anything, especially if it is remotely involving something that could be even tangentially related to sexual harassment/assault.
 
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Hacker15e said:
Based on my experiences in the "current" military, I find that highly unlikely, unfortunately.
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I too see the military making that unfortunate change. The failure of leadership that tolerated Lt Col "Bud" Holland was blatantly irresponsible. However, making career destruction the only tool in a commander's leadership tool kit is also irresponsible. Somewhere between those two extremes is the right approach. The art and the difficulty of command is to have the wisdom to find that level for each unique situation.
 
You guys are forgetting that he may have some jail time to serve out of this whole thing - especially if he left a significant gash on some dude's forehead. If he is court marshalled, make him pay back what the tax payers spent to send him to college.
 
Houston said:
Hopefully his commander is wise enough not to draw conclusions on such serious subjects based on nothing more than a newspaper clipping.
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LEt's flip the script for a minute and make this guy an enlisted Petty Officer 3rd class. He would be to Captain's Mast so fast and there would be no question he is done. Why should it be any different because he was an officer? I saw this happen plenty of times while on the Ranger.

I shlt you not....We were underway to Sydney Austrailia and we had an enlisted E3 who decided he missed his girlfriend and wanted out. What did he do....? During an UNREP operation he jumped from mid-deck between the carrier and the supply ship. Being an UNREP operation there were helo's flying supplies back and forth with rescue swimmers. They did an emergency breakaway (VERY DANGEROUS) nad plucked him form the ocean. He was at Mast within days and he 'helped' out of the Navy. He spent the rest of the cruise in the Brig and when we got back to North Island, he was gone.....Dumb-ass. (you can totally say ass on here....)

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Murdoughnut said:
You guys are forgetting that he may have some jail time to serve out of this whole thing - especially if he left a significant gash on some dude's forehead. If he is court marshalled, make him pay back what the tax payers spent to send him to college.
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They will bust him down in rank and THEN take money from him.....
 
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