Mainline- Airline Pilot Demand

BobDDuck said:
I blew two major/legacy interviews and had to re interview at third before I got a call. It worked out amazingly (so far anyway) for me in the end, but there was a lot of doubt and bitterness I had to get through in the meantime.

As for the second point... I can't emphasis this enough. While there are certainly lots and lots of things I don't miss about the daily slog at a regional, there are other things I do miss. Yes, it is much better in the big leagues, but don't write off your time there as pointless or always miserable. Also, and I can't say this enough, DO NOT let your quest for moving on to a bigger, better job get in the way of time with your spouse and family. Sure, you will have to go to job fairs and interviews on your days off, and you have to keep up with and do research on where to be submitting your applications, but DON'T let it consume you. In hindsight it may have happened anyways, but the constant stress and pressure of trying to make it to the big show, that I allowed to become part of our everyday life, was one of the biggest reasons (according to her anyway) that my marriage ended.
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This.

Any stress or pressure to voluntarily change jobs is entirely self-imposed, and driven by one's personal desire to achieve "X" career goal. I'd wager that, if you ask your spouse and kids what they want, they say "Daddy/Mommy."

Families don't need a six figure income, a huge house, a high-end automobile, or other extravagances. What they DO need is to be a together. The regionals (some of them anyway) are a perfectly fine career choice. Don't trap yourself into thinking that the majors are only way to have a good life and career.

Hell, our host is a 15 year pilot for Delta, and he's too cheap to replace his travel charger, or to get the A/C in his Corolla fixed. :-)
 
That's not what my friends at Comair, Westair or ACA would say, but I feel you though.

Looking back, if I didn't "move up the food chain", I'd be sitting at home on the couch watching "The Talk" drinking a coffee.

Whoah whoah whoah, that's what I'm doing right now, but there would be a open tab to "Monster.com" instead of the XenForo admin panel.

I heavily advise against the idea that you're going to be able to scratch out an entire career at a regional, especially in this FFD environment where there's a 24/7 fistfight to underbid your contract. I'd rather be junior working the weekends at Hawaiian than super senior at any regional. Believe it.
 
Derg said:
That's not what my friends at Comair, Westair or ACA would say, but I feel you though.

Looking back, if I didn't "move up the food chain", I'd be sitting at home on the couch watching "The Talk" drinking a coffee.

Whoah whoah whoah, that's what I'm doing right now, but there would be a open tab to "Monster.com" instead of the XenForo admin panel.

I heavily advise against the idea that you're going to be able to scratch out an entire career at a regional, especially in this FFD environment where there's a 24/7 fistfight to underbid your contract. I'd rather be junior working the weekends at Hawaiian than super senior at any regional. Believe it.
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rocketman5150 said:
Families don't need a six figure income, a huge house, a high-end automobile, or other extravagances. What they DO need is to be a together. The regionals (some of them anyway) are a perfectly fine career choice. Don't trap yourself into thinking that the majors are only way to have a good life and career.
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It's not about the six figure income or the huge house. It's about job stability. 3 months after I escape the regional I was at they voted in what many (myself included) would call a huge concessionary deal. If I had made a career at that regional, my top out pay would have gone from $104/hr to $86/hr overnight. And there is no guarantee that the major partner wouldn't just cut all the flying tomorrow. Section 1 of pretty much every regional CBA is all but worthless (outside of alter ego and seniority list protections).

There are lots and lots of reasons NOT to stay at a regional for a career. All I was saying is be careful how you make your escape. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, just not with the amount of single minded focus.
 
Derg said:
That's not what my friends at Comair, Westair or ACA would say, but I feel you though.
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I felt old as a 2nd year regional FO at thirty... then, in the crew room last week I overheard one our Comair refugees just off of IOE (ex CKA on the -700 I think) begging crewsked to be put on reserve in CLE so he wouldn't have to pay for a hotel in base.

:(
 
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HVYMETALDRVR said:
I felt old as a 2nd year regional FO at thirty... then, in the crew room last week I overheard one our Comair refugees just off of IOE (ex CKA on the -700 I think) begging crewsked to be put on reserve in CLE so he wouldn't have to pay for a hotel in base.

:(
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I flew with 2 of those guys right before I left. I felt so bad for them. They both had at LEAST double that amount of CRJ time that I did and one of them started at CMR the day I started 1st grade.

Crazy world, but if you don't own your flying, you ain't got nothing.

And even if you do own your flying there are no guarantees (see: Eastern, Pan Am, ATA etc).
 
BobDDuck said:
I flew with 2 of those guys right before I left. I felt so bad for them. They both had at LEAST double that amount of CRJ time that I did and one of them started at CMR the day I started 1st grade.

Crazy world, but if you don't own your flying, you ain't got nothing.

And even if you do own your flying there are no guarantees (see: Eastern, Pan Am, ATA etc).
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Wow, yeah this industry is crazy... congrats on moving on from the regional world. I've seen you post here quite a bit, where did you move on too if you don't mind me asking? the one based in CLT and PHX? ATL? CLE and TX? the one that's blu? Or the the one named after Madonna?
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Wow, yeah this industry is crazy... congrats on moving on from the regional world. I've seen you post here quite a bit, where did you move on too if you don't mind me asking? the one based in CLT and PHX? ATL? CLE and TX? the one that's blu? Or the the one named after Madonna?
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The one that has the pretty lady on the tail.
 
I feel the key is surviving what I call "bankruptcy roulette." The numbers look good for pilot hiring going forward. However none of this rules out the idiot manager factor. You know the little game that management plays with everyone's lives. "Oh lets gobble up market share by buying new airplanes and running our pilots into the ground with the worst schedule imaginable." I saw that one first hand. XOJET moved from a boutique quality charter operator to a literal joke. They added a fleet type that didn't make sense and lowered our prices to corner the market on TEB-VNY. It didn't work out so well. My input was always that this is a really bad idea but in real life I don't drive a giant monster truck called the Dilldozer and I don't carry a flamethrower. So no one listens to me.

Now XOJET has laid off 10 percent of its pilot group and another 10 percent left because it sucks so much ass. What this means is that many of the copilots are leaving for something better after wasting 1-4 years of their lives, myself included. They will hire again and I would strongly advise not going there. The point that I am trying to make is the data we all need is solid financial data and data on the management of each company. Select your future airline well and you will no doubt do well during the next 10 or so years. Choose poorly and you will fall victim to the latest version of management doublespeak and poorly planned business ideas.
 
BobDDuck said:
Don't be the guy at the interview (I know... we are talking about GETTING an interview at this stage, but still...) who when asked about your volunteer or charity work says "well, I ran this 5k and I donated some clothes to Goodwill." Be the guy who talks about what you do WEEKLY (or at least monthly) and HOW it helps out the community.
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"Yes, I have been very active in community service and charity for over 8 years now. I've been a pilot at a regional airline."

Next question.

Seriously, you want more of my time?
 
BobDDuck said:
It's not about the six figure income or the huge house. It's about job stability. 3 months after I escape the regional I was at they voted in what many (myself included) would call a huge concessionary deal. If I had made a career at that regional, my top out pay would have gone from $104/hr to $86/hr overnight. And there is no guarantee that the major partner wouldn't just cut all the flying tomorrow. Section 1 of pretty much every regional CBA is all but worthless (outside of alter ego and seniority list protections).

There are lots and lots of reasons NOT to stay at a regional for a career. All I was saying is be careful how you make your escape. I'd do it again in a heartbeat, just not with the amount of single minded focus.
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Don't misunderstand. I was not criticizing your choice to go to a major. I was reminding everyone else not to sacrifice their family for their career.

That said, I find your post interesting. Let's examine the bigger picture. Top end pay at your former company was just reduced to $86. This only affects those people who were already earning more than more than that. Anyone earning 86 or less "conceded" nothing, at least in terms of hourly pay. But as a result of their now lower average labor costs, they are more competitive to keep the flying they have, and to bid on opportunities for new flying. So job security at your former company is, if anything, enhanced. By the same token, job security at your major just got slighly worse because there is now more economic incentive shift flying to your former regional. Isn't economics wonderful?
 
rocketman5150 said:
Don't misunderstand. I was not criticizing your choice to go to a major. I was reminding everyone else not to sacrifice their family for their career.

That said, I find your post interesting. Let's examine the bigger picture. Top end pay at your former company was just reduced to $86. This only affects those people who were already earning more than more than that. Anyone earning 86 or less "conceded" nothing, at least in terms of hourly pay. But as a result of their now lower average labor costs, they are more competitive to keep the flying they have, and to bid on opportunities for new flying. So job security at your former company is, if anything, enhanced. By the same token, job security at your major just got slighly worse because there is now more economic incentive shift flying to your former regional. Isn't economics wonderful?
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I'm beginning to think you are the reincarnation of Hobbes. That, or you've read The Leviathan a few too many times.

Probably the later since Hobbes didn't believe in reincarnation, as life is "nasty, brutish and short."
 
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