Delta's New 717

Seggy said:
If it ain't Boeing I'm not going!
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Says the man with an Airbus type. Why did you even except the job then? Oh yea, you applied, interviewed an took an offer, did the training....

Got an update on those block rooms for Vegas yet? We are a month out now!
 
Derg said:
Nah, it's all between the manufacturer, the operator and the FAA POI.

I've got 6000-ish hours on the MD-88/90 and you couldn't drop me into a Allegiant cockpit and expect me to meld right in because of procedures.

Another example is that I've completed most of the distance learning on the 330 and then took a trip over to http://airbusdriver.net and I have no idea what in the world they're talking about because it's how USAirways flies and operates the jets. The limitations section is even different which, one would gather, would be the same, but they're not.

Think of the airlines like operating in their own walled cities, never to mix. In the 757/767 world at SouthernJets Innanashnul, they have a "757/767 bible" of sorts. And that "bible" may completely contradict American's "bible", but within that walled city you follow that or "off with your head".

The absolute worst, most mind-boggling, "DAMMIT, WHAT ARE YOU, 12?!" statement in new hire class (or any other point during your training for the rest of your career) is always "Well, over at XYZ we did it THIS way..."

Who cares. SHUT...THE HELL... UP.

The people paying you are training you to do it the way they want their multi-million dollar jet to be operated. XYZ doesn't exist for all intents and purposes.
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Yeah, like I said, I'm aware that there are differences in how each company does things. And I understand that in some cases the checklists will be different inconsequentially in order and content. And I understand that there are cultural issues. And for those issue, I accept your admonition to "SHUT...THE XXXX...UP" (respecting your recent request to watch my language).
But my question regards aerodynamic items of difference. Aerodynamics is aerodynamics. The physics don't lie. Take flaps (if you don't like flaps, take power settings or Vref, or whatever... For an airplane of a given type at a given weight, there is going to be one flap setting which provides best lift. How then can different airlines reasonably (in a legal-proof fashion) justify using some other setting? This is not a cultural issue. I'm not trying to incite a culture war or a brand war here. I'm really curious about how aerodynamically-material differences can be justified.
 
Crop Duster said:
Yeah, like I said, I'm aware that there are differences in how each company does things. And I understand that in some cases the checklists will be different inconsequentially in order and content. And I understand that there are cultural issues. And for those issue, I accept your admonition to "SHUT...THE XXXX...UP" (respecting your recent request to watch my language).
But my question regards aerodynamic items of difference. Aerodynamics is aerodynamics. The physics don't lie. Take flaps (if you don't like flaps, take power settings or Vref, or whatever... For an airplane of a given type at a given weight, there is going to be one flap setting which provides best lift. How then can different airlines reasonably (in a legal-proof fashion) justify using some other setting? This is not a cultural issue. I'm not trying to incite a culture war or a brand war here. I'm really curious about how aerodynamically-material differences can be justified.
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Example: At my company, we can't take off with flaps 22. The aircraft is certified to take off with flaps 22, and some companies DO take off with flaps 22. But we're not one of them, because it's not approved. It doesn't matter if it's the absolute best most awesome way to take off at a given weight, we can't do it.

Flaps 9? Sure. Flaps 18? Yup. But never, ever, ever, flaps 22.

Also, there likely isn't a "best" flap setting, or anything setting for that matter. There are a lot of things that can be adjusted beyond just flaps. We have two (or, depending on the aircraft, three) take off thrust settings we can use. Would one of those solve a runway limiting problem? How about flaps 9 or 18? Or maybe V speeds that are split as opposed to having V1 and VR at the same speed (which is common on my airframe, with the weight and balance program we use).

You get a lot more variables to juggle as the aircraft gets bigger, and different companies handle aircraft performance in different ways.
 
Crop Duster said:
Take flaps (if you don't like flaps, take power settings or Vref, or whatever... For an airplane of a given type at a given weight, there is going to be one flap setting which provides best lift. How then can different airlines reasonably (in a legal-proof fashion) justify using some other setting? This is not a cultural issue. I'm not trying to incite a culture war or a brand war here. I'm really curious about how aerodynamically-material differences can be justified.
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jtrain609 said:
Example: At my company, we can't take off with flaps 22. The aircraft is certified to take off with flaps 22, and some companies DO take off with flaps 22. But we're not one of them, because it's not approved. It doesn't matter if it's the absolute best most awesome way to take off at a given weight, we can't do it.

Flaps 9? Sure. Flaps 18? Yup. But never, ever, ever, flaps 22.

Also, there likely isn't a "best" flap setting, or anything setting for that matter. There are a lot of things that can be adjusted beyond just flaps. We have two (or, depending on the aircraft, three) take off thrust settings we can use. Would one of those solve a runway limiting problem? How about flaps 9 or 18? Or maybe V speeds that are split as opposed to having V1 and VR at the same speed (which is common on my airframe, with the weight and balance program we use).

You get a lot more variables to juggle as the aircraft gets bigger, and different companies handle aircraft performance in different ways.
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In actuality, it's about money. The manufacturer comes up with all the data for every flap/power/weight setting for take off/landing, and then the airline buys whatever set of data they want. Can't take off with flaps 22 but Brand X can? Guess which airline bought the flaps 22 take off data!
 
Seggy said:
At least I don't have to ask the Boeing permission to land!
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I don't either. "Activate and Confirm" and if I'm feeling sporty, "Autopilot off, Flight Directors off." (Haven't felt sporty enough yet to turn the auto thrust off.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free
 
Derg said:
You ain't going. Shut up and finish your cheese coney. :)
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CheeseEatingSurrenderMonkey1.jpg
 
jtrain609 said:
Example: At my company, we can't take off with flaps 22. The aircraft is certified to take off with flaps 22, and some companies DO take off with flaps 22. But we're not one of them, because it's not approved. It doesn't matter if it's the absolute best most awesome way to take off at a given weight, we can't do it.

Flaps 9? Sure. Flaps 18? Yup. But never, ever, ever, flaps 22.

Also, there likely isn't a "best" flap setting, or anything setting for that matter. There are a lot of things that can be adjusted beyond just flaps. We have two (or, depending on the aircraft, three) take off thrust settings we can use. Would one of those solve a runway limiting problem? How about flaps 9 or 18? Or maybe V speeds that are split as opposed to having V1 and VR at the same speed (which is common on my airframe, with the weight and balance program we use).

You get a lot more variables to juggle as the aircraft gets bigger, and different companies handle aircraft performance in different ways.
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1 = R, how nice to have all -145s...
 
ERfly said:
I don't either. "Activate and Confirm" and if I'm feeling sporty, "Autopilot off, Flight Directors off." (Haven't felt sporty enough yet to turn the auto thrust off.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free
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I havent flown an approach with the autothrust on in a month. :) Fifi is by far the most fun hand flying airliner I've flown except it's a close tie to the 757.


But, I couldn't taxi around the airport from the right seat in the others like I can on fifi. I forgot how much I enjoyed taxiing and parking the plane.

Which is another difference with DL and US... at US the FO's tiller moving is a FOQA event. Whereas at DL it's perfectly fine for the FO to taxi at any time.
 
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