Delta's New 717

ATN_Pilot said:
What I absolutely despise is the good-ole-boy, pat-you-on-the-back, we're all buddies, fakery.
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Welcome to the astro-turfed grass movement 21st century.
Why do you think so many decent, unemployed, small town folk are screaming "everything is fine on Wall Street, but sucks on Main Street" and then voting for the Koch sponsored Tea Party to rectify that problem?!
Average people in all industries are being manipulated to vote against their self-interest and for corporate interests.
Most people aren't stupid, they are simply very ignorant and don't connect the dots very well. Making and keeping them ignorant, distracted, and angrily divided is very much by design.
Sorry, I gotta drop this so I can go watch Rush Limbaugh and Piers Morgan...
 
BobDDuck said:
I don't buy it.

Next time I work a longer leg (and by longer I mean more than 20 minutes) I pull the performance manuals and find the difference in time to TOC with a derate vs a LIM climb. And also if it shows the fuel savings using derates.
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When do you get to do one of these runs to the mainland?

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Murdoughnut said:
When do you get to do one of these runs to the mainland?

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They just put a request out for pilots to do it. I volunteered but the fleet captain said they are looking for captains, not FOs. My name is on the list, but they didn't send me to training this time around so maybe next year.
 
i still think that AT had a procedure to not start the 2nd motor on the 717 untill 5000', i dont know how many times i almost wacked a south bound ORD dept climbing to 5000' with with a north bound AT 717 off of MDW climbing to 6000' you think i would have learned my lesson the first couple of times (hay kid that stove is HOT)......"Capt when i said expidite to 6000' i really mean it" and i can garendeed you would not like the real written procedure to get a MDW north bound up when dept off of MDW to the west.lets just say the view of the FOX river and the far west burbs for about 30 miles at 3000' is breathtakeing!

P.S. there is an old saying at C90 " dont ever rule out a southeast heading on a north bound dept" been there done that all i got was a ribbing from the guys.
 
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Crop Duster said:
Welcome to the astro-turfed grass movement 21st century.
Why do you think so many decent, unemployed, small town folk are screaming "everything is fine on Wall Street, but sucks on Main Street" and then voting for the Koch sponsored Tea Party to rectify that problem?!
Average people in all industries are being manipulated to vote against their self-interest and for corporate interests.
Most people aren't stupid, they are simply very ignorant and don't connect the dots very well. Making and keeping them ignorant, distracted, and angrily divided is very much by design.
Sorry, I gotta drop this so I can go watch Rush Limbaugh and Piers Morgan...
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WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!
 
I'm sure this is stating the obvious but no one seems to have said it:
If Air Tran's pilots are ATL based and have been flying the 717 for ages and DAL is recruiting new pilots primarily for the 717, and probably mainly also ATL based, wouldn't disgruntled AirTran pilots be prime recruitment material for DAL (after it has honoured its feeder agreements with its regional carriers) since it would save a load of money and time on type-ratings?
 
Not really. A new hire is new hire is a new hire.

No one at that point really has the drive to start over.

Like if Delta sold all of the A330's to US Airways, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I'd follow the aircraft.
 
Derg said:
Not really. A new hire is new hire is a new hire.

No one at that point really has the drive to start over.

Like if Delta sold all of the A330's to US Airways, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I'd follow the aircraft.
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OK, I'd just seen ATN complaining about having to potentially commute to west coast and thought that staying in ATL would be better, but maybe not!
When did you start A330 flying, I thought you were a 767 driver?
 
Next month I go to class.

Regionals are fairly interchangeable because at the end of the day, they're all competing for feed.

Higher up the food chain, career portability asymptotically approaches zero.
 
asl said:
I'm sure this is stating the obvious but no one seems to have said it:
If Air Tran's pilots are ATL based and have been flying the 717 for ages and DAL is recruiting new pilots primarily for the 717, and probably mainly also ATL based, wouldn't disgruntled AirTran pilots be prime recruitment material for DAL (after it has honoured its feeder agreements with its regional carriers) since it would save a load of money and time on type-ratings?
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Derg gave you a great answer, but to expound on it, Delta is gonna fly that plane Delta's way, not Airtran's way. You still are gonna have to do a core brain load dump and assimilate them into the collective. The cost is the same regardless where any new hire comes from.
 
Cptnchia said:
Derg gave you a great answer, but to expound on it, Delta is gonna fly that plane Delta's way, not Airtran's way. You still are gonna have to do a core brain load dump and assimilate them into the collective. The cost is the same regardless where any new hire comes from.
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So here's a question. Is there a best way to fly an aircraft? It seems it could easily be argued that there is. So why does, for instance, SWA launch the 737-8 with 10° flaps, while American launches with 20° (yes, I'm making up those numbers, but there are differences)?
As far as I can tell, there are many operational differences along these lines. So from whence do they spring? "That's how we've always done it" doesn't quite cut if for me. These operational disparities strike me as faith-based. Are there real, explicated reasons for these differences? Or did some Chief in the mists of yore just hand this stuff down? "Tho shalt neither set thine flaps at 20, nor eat oxen flesh on Friday, nor ever shalt thou eat Pork"...? Seems unlikely with the fear of litigation surrounding the industry. Additionally, aircraft certified recently have different OSOPs across different carriers. So, clearly, new airplanes operations wouldn't carry historical baggage (unless they stopped in Denver).
Doesn't physics win? Don't the AFMs win? I understand that there are multiple methods by which to separate the feline and its epidermis, however, I would think that it could be easily scientifically argued that there is one best way. In effect, though seemingly not with any scientific basis, that is exactly what each operator is arguing... "this is the best way we to do it and you must do it this way". Well, if another operator claims the same about a different method of doing the same thing, somebody is wrong.
So how is the OSOP supported? Under what guidance or aegis? Seems it would be rather difficult to go into court and argue "this is the best way to do it because we say so".
 
Nah, it's all between the manufacturer, the operator and the FAA POI.

I've got 6000-ish hours on the MD-88/90 and you couldn't drop me into a Allegiant cockpit and expect me to meld right in because of procedures.

Another example is that I've completed most of the distance learning on the 330 and then took a trip over to http://airbusdriver.net and I have no idea what in the world they're talking about because it's how USAirways flies and operates the jets. The limitations section is even different which, one would gather, would be the same, but they're not.

Think of the airlines like operating in their own walled cities, never to mix. In the 757/767 world at SouthernJets Innanashnul, they have a "757/767 bible" of sorts. And that "bible" may completely contradict American's "bible", but within that walled city you follow that or "off with your head".

The absolute worst, most mind-boggling, "DAMMIT, WHAT ARE YOU, 12?!" statement in new hire class (or any other point during your training for the rest of your career) is always "Well, over at XYZ we did it THIS way..."

Who cares. SHUT...THE HELL... UP.

The people paying you are training you to do it the way they want their multi-million dollar jet to be operated. XYZ doesn't exist for all intents and purposes.
 
Yeargh! You're getting too wrapped around the axle. Don't confuse basic airplane defaults with company procedures and techniques. By that I mean, the manufacturer has determined there are certain minimum actions which need to be performed in order to fly the plane. They publish a "recommended" checklist. However, each company is free to structure their checklist philosophy to accomplish these basic actions in any order, as long as the action gets performed.
 
Cptnchia said:
Yeargh! You're getting too wrapped around the axle. Don't confuse basic airplane defaults with company procedures and techniques. By that I mean, the manufacturer has determined there are certain minimum actions which need to be performed in order to fly the plane. They publish a "recommended" checklist. However, each company is free to structure their checklist philosophy to accomplish these basic actions.
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American jumpseater during my MD-88/90 days:

"Your flap selector is at 23"

"Yup"

"Can you do that?"

"We leave it there because it's awesome during an expedited descent"

"Shouldn't that be in stow?"

"Nope!"
 
Heck, just think back to the DAL/NWA 757 checklist struggle du jour.


"You can't put the flaps down til I tell you to!"
"Why? That's how we've always done it."
"But then I won't know if they are up or down before take off."
"Don't you look at the flap selector at least twice? During the taxi and then before takeoff checklist?"
"Yes, but I have to tell you first. That's how we've always done it."

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Cptnchia said:
Heck, just think back to the DAL/NWA 757 checklist struggle du jour.


"You can't put the flaps down til I tell you to!"
"Why? That's how we've always done it."
"But then I won't know if they are up or down before take off."
"Don't you look at the flap selector at least twice? During the taxi and then before takeoff checklist?"
"Yes, but I have to tell you first. That's how we've always done it."

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Gun to my head and *pew pew*.

UNGH!!!!

"Why why why blah blah blah"

"BECAUSE THE MAN PAYING US TO BE HERE AND TO DO THIS JOB WANTS IT THAT WAY. DAAAAAAAAMN!!"
 
Derg said:
Not really. A new hire is new hire is a new hire.

No one at that point really has the drive to start over.

Like if Delta sold all of the A330's to US Airways, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that I'd follow the aircraft.
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Well you would be one of the few FOs on it under 60!

As for airbusdriver.net, it's an awesome website for US Airways pilots (contrary to what the training center thinks), but we fly the Airbus so much differently than any other operator (from what I can tell from United and Spirit jumpseat rides), that it would be Greek to you. Our training philosophy is that we have must-know and good-to-know items. They don't confuse us with a "Build Me the Airplane" or "I'm a molecule of fuel, take me from the tank to the exhaust" type of questions. Plus, on the 320, we only have 1 memory item and it's going away soon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free
 
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