Eagle "thrown under the bus"? You decide.

amorris311 said:
This is an honest question and not meant to come off as dickish. Is your pilot group even allowed to vote on changes?
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Kind of. As far as I understand it (and it's a limited understanding, truth be told), SAPA puts full pay packages to us for up-or-down votes; most everything, though, is done in a more small-r republican, 'representative' manner.

(I'm pro-union, in case it wasn't obvious.)

Of course, it's not really bargaining without a bargaining agent. Arguably, we could do the JetBlue-style, every pilot has their own contract approach.
 
One pilot union which is funded heavily from the top by pilots whose best interest is to take flying (and therefore jobs and pay) away from the lower funding pilots... and you mean to tell me it is causing strife. I have always thought it absurd that the regionals were ever a part of ALPA to begin with since there is a huge conflict of interest in membership.

Pilot unions serve two basic interests in my mind: Protect my job from the FAA and to protect my job from my company in the event of some misfortune.
 
Seggy said:
Ok



You were adamant on how the loss of flying from the regionals to mainline was bad. As your fellow company pilots have opinions, I was wanting to hear yours based on your previous statements.
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You know the reason I feel the way I do right now. I think I made that clear. As for the rest, I don't have enough time under my belt, or enough knowledge to form what I would consider a valid opinion.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I guess it's because I make $70/hour on the side as an independent IT spook, but the odds of me voting "yes" on any concessionary (in terms of absolute pay, or other things like work rules or soft time) are approximately one in $BIGNUM.

My talk and my votes are, in this case, congruent.
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I commend you for developing, and maintaining, a tangible skill-set outside of aviation and building value for yourself.
 
Seggy said:
Can you give specific examples on why it is an "F"? Did ALPA negotiate lower unprompted or were their hands tied due to various bankruptcy laws?
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At mainline they certainly did have their hands tied due to bankruptcy laws.

Specific examples. I dunno, Pinnacle?
 
surreal1221 said:
In addition to his secular narrative message he is selling, ALPA managers (I can't bring myself to call any of them leaders right now, you were one Todd - but likely one of the last) need to hear and listen to the concerns of line pilots not receive lip service and weak platitudes from the "top."
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Believe me, I get the frustration, and I think everyone here knows that I wouldn't exactly do things the way that the current big cheese does things. But I'm not going to attack the man for a different style of leadership. I would attack him if he was saying something that was untrue, or intentionally trying to mislead people into taking actions against their own best interests, but that's just not the case. He's just being more blunt than a lot of people would like, and it's not exactly very motivational. But it is the truth. We have a very serious problem with being able to generate leverage in the FFD segment of the industry right now. Acknowledging that reality may be depressing, but it's also necessary. You can't develop a coherent strategy if you still haven't acknowledged your position. Could it be done in a way that is more "leadershipy" and not so depressing? Possibly.
 
surreal1221 said:
I commend you for developing, and maintaining, a tangible skill-set outside of aviation and building value for yourself.
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I'm a career-changer at age 26. Although, truthfully, I've always wanted to fly. Now I'm doing both.

Admittedly, I don't get 'value from myself' from my paycheck. Happiness neither. I'm quite happy and I rather like (even love) all the things I get to do. When I go to fly, you get 100% regardless of what my paycheck contains (or doesn't contain). In other words, I'm a pro. I want to make more money. Given market realities, this is what the skillset for this airplane is worth, and I make it work. But I look at what's happening elsewhere and I'm going to say 'no' if ever given the chance. Because this is as low as I'm going to go.

It's like @Derg succinctly put it:

Get some self-respect and nothing comes cheap when it comes to burning Jet-A. Ironic, sure, for a guy who flies for cheap. But the airplane doesn't weigh or carry that much (or go any place in particular) either, and my take-home is still higher than some of my 50-70 or even 100-seat counterparts. Aroo? I've flown a jet. It isn't that special. It sure isn't worth making less than turboprop wages!

edit: or as @WacoFan would put it, choose "Death by cowabunga!"
 
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Having a union representing mainline carriers as well as their regionals is a conflict of interest.

They will always look to help the mainlines first.
 
I hate flow throughs and guaranteed interviews by senority. That's a great way to get some real duds at a mainline carrier.
Getting a regional subcontractor to get higher rates its always an uphill battle because there is always another airline that undercut them. Take Mesa for example. No marketing, no public brand, no E175 program...and now they get a deal with United to fly E175s. Call some newhires, whip together an Embraer program and viola. Now RAHs long contract negotiations just got a little tougher because now management has a more apples to apples comparison of someone who will do it for cheaper (outandproud).
 
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FlySooner9 said:
Having a union representing mainline carriers as well as their regionals is a conflict of interest.

They will always look to help the mainlines first.
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Apparently this point of view isn't very popular but I'd be fine with that so long as there's a concerted effort to make regional pilots into mainline pilots.

My first choice would be putting everything larger than 50 seats on a mainline seniority list, but I'd take a flow just as well.
 
Kingairer said:
Take Mesa for example. No marketing, no public brand, no E175 program...and now they get a deal with United to fly E175s. Call some newhires, whip together an Embraer program and viola. Now RAHs long contract negotiations just got a little tougher because now management has a more apples to apples comparison of someone who will do it for cheaper (outandproud).
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Mesa has a pretty long history flying Embraer products, just not the ones with engines under the wings. Also, if I recall when I was doing section 6 prep, we looked at both RAH and MAG and when you balanced out compensation+QOL initiatives, they really weren't that far apart.
 
The names of the companies are really irrelevant and interchangeable. My point is not mesa sucks. Its that there is always someone out there that will do it cheaper and all the need is warm, willing bodies to do it.
 
I am a former (albeit briefly) volunteer for ALPA and admitted fanboy for them and I have to admit that this letter from Moak seems pretty awful, however I do not think it is fair to say that by being a member of ALPA you are being worked against. The local MEC has virtual total autonomy in setting bargaining priorities, the professionals at Herndon usually have great advice but it is perfectly OK for an MEC to tell them to pound sand, sometimes perhaps to their detriment I might say.

If this letter pisses you off then get more active and let your status reps know you dont want a guy like this speaking for the Association next time; but honestly that is all he is or can do: speak. Being in ALPA is like having a great toolbox at your disposal, but it is all up to your local MEC and reps.

I wish the current union we have on property at my current job was half as useful or responsive as ALPA was.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4
 
Seggy said:
How does ALPA look after mainlines first?
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Considering they get their due money based off a percentage of a pilots income. Well we all know that percentage coming from a mainline pilot is way larger then one from a regional pilot.
 
And the proof is ALPA at regionals and national (Moak) trying to convince regionals to take more concessions.
 
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