Landing Incident @ SFO
- Thread starter BEEF SUPREME
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Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Round-eye eat at Applebees, everyone know this!
Of course the last laugh is Korea's, as home-cooked dog just has to be better for you than Sysco Soylent Green.
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Yeah, whatever. You were the boss man because you were the plane-identification team Captain.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Look also on how the foreign airlines are subsidized by their governments, ESPECIALLY in the Middle East. How is that good for the American free market? Can you REALLY not see this?
Categorize Pinnacle and Colgan? Seriously? Have you not seen me say we had horrific cultures at those companies that was cultivated by incompetent management? It was both a lack of a high level training environment AND safety culture. They were far worse than a foreign airline. They should not have been allowed to fly in the United States. The same can be said for a lot of the foreign airlines if you look at it from a 'best practice' safety culture.
I really can't say much about Comair. Not as familiar with that accident as I am the others.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
While I whole heartily agree with the ALPA statement, the NTSB is in a difficult position with the media in today's day and age. That position forces them to release information they haven't in the past because it is going to get out anyway (ask me how I know).
Some parties to the investigation have information at hand (before the plane hits the ground) that points liability away from them and a doubt about their products. This information gathered outside of the official investigation can easily be leaked by these parties outside of the NTSB Investigation. So, if you are the NTSB, do you tell that information officially in a more control manner? Or do you allow that information to fester, allowing for the individual parties to grow agitated and put them in a position where they are going to release information through their channels (once again ask me how I know). This is the reality we live in today. Not saying it is right, just saying, it is what it is.
I am glad ALPA put out this statement, taking the moral high ground, and protecting the membership, but they are pissing into the wind here.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
My sense of the Comair crash was that it was, well, if not "excusable", certainly more "understandable". Early show, poor markings, asleep-at-the-switch controller. Now, they did fail to verify their heading before blasting off, which is, at least in my cockpit, kind of a no-no. But it's a lot easier to understand (for me, anyway), than being unable to fly a visual approach to a monster runway in perfect weather without crashing. *shrug*
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Excuse me. Markings were perfect. Controller had no responsibility to watch takeoff. Lights off on the closed runway (centerline lights out on open runway). Check out the CVR, their heads were not in the game. One issue not addressed in accident report was that captain had flown out of LEX a number of times and the FO knew that. FO probably deferred to captain's knowledge and zoned out during taxi. I'm not exactly unbiased. The controller was a relative and I lost a couple of friends in the crash.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Completely agree with what I have heard about the Comair crash, except the part about the controller, they did nothing wrong.
I do have to say, be careful about standing on a soap box though about 'not being unable to fly a visual approach to a monster runway in perfect weather without crashing'. Flying international long haul in a plane like a 777 is a different ball game. The system is not designed for proficiency here. On a United States airline, thankfully we have good CRM practices and well experienced flight crews to help counter the lack of proficiency these crews face.
If you don't have those CRM practices, well, then hull losses like we saw Saturday can easily happen.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
One other thing I was thinking about. I would like to see if the flying pilot came off the Airbus 330 to the Boeing 777 or if he went Boeing to Boeing.
On the Airbus, the thurst levers don't move when in autothrust. They are in detents and stay there until the plane calls you a bad name. On the Boeing, the throttle levers move when the autothrottles are engaged. Could be a human factor issue.
On the Airbus, the thurst levers don't move when in autothrust. They are in detents and stay there until the plane calls you a bad name. On the Boeing, the throttle levers move when the autothrottles are engaged. Could be a human factor issue.
I will say.. That cluster at the end of 22 in LEX was confusing as all get out. Can still be a little awkward if you haven't been there in a while.
SeanD
Well-Known Member
Seggy
Well-Known Member
But did he go 747 to 330 to 777? Or 330 to 747 to 777?
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Naturally, I defer to PF on the Comair crash. That said, I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that there's any excuse for crashing a working airplane on a huge runway in perfect weather. Again, we're going to excuse ourselves out of a job if we keep this up.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
The markings were correct. Signs were well illuminated. I found nothing confusing about it.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Boris Badenov, it is not an excuse. We are trying to make the systems safer. HUGE difference.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Nothing to add because it is very sad/sobering but I do find it, ironic maybe, that the only airplane seen flying in the background is another Asiana plane.
Nick
Well-Known Member
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