Thinking about making a complete 180 and pursuing my original dream.

[eightballfreight]

All it takes is one late night crappy ATP infomercial with Kevin Trudeau saying "tired of yer cubicle!?", to offer the newly indentured servants 60K for life and pilot problem solved.
I have every faith in mgmt to fill the seats. unfortunately.

 

[3green]

To the Op,

Go be a Doctor. Apparently the guy below is a Dr.(foot surgeon)and he's living the dream. Flying when you want, where you want. That's what birds do... or you could choose to lug a rollaboard around a terminal with grumpy passengers. You decide...

 

[flyinguitar]

To the Op,

Go be a Doctor. Apparently the guy below is a Dr.(foot surgeon)and he's living the dream. Flying when you want, where you want. That's what birds do... or you could choose to lug a rollaboard around a terminal with grumpy passengers. You decide...

99.9% of doctors make nowhere near enough to afford their own P-51, fyi. Think more like a C182. One of the most successful doctors I know has a Cessna 400, and he is clearly one of the higher earners around.

 

[z987k]

Gypsy, there are several things that have changed since you and I received our ratings. Today 100L is close to $6 a gallon. That is stopping a lot of folks from flying. Getting to the airlines now is going to be a 10 year process. Maybe that's not such a bad thing, but it's a long time to wait to begin a $22,000 a year career (at 28 years of age) that will not hit $100,000 (at 38 years of age) for ten more years after that. It's not that folks do not want to fly. The economics are just going to stop them. At this time, there is not a real way to make it work.

Some folks are counting on the CFI stuff. That may work and it may not. We do have an increase in student pilots over the past two years, but most of that increase is coming from foreign nationals. At some point those countries that are sending the pilots over for training will be able to train their pilots on their own soil. The other issue with the CFI position is that you basically starve while you are doing it because of a lot of external factors. Let's not even talk about all of the waiting around time.

The regionals were able to pick up 10's of thousands of pilots over the past 2 decades. Now they will not be able to do that. That means those CFI, pipeline and banner towing will be the only "entry level" commercial jobs. 135 will be the step up from the entry level and regional will be the step up from 135. The funnel is getting much smaller and there just will not be enough of the entry level jobs to keep the pipeline filled. That means pilots will not be able to get the hours they need and they will not get them as fast. The problem is that they will now need more of them.

Joe

10 years? Are you talking major airline? Do you think everyone flies 200 hours a year? Heck that used to just be a crazy month.
Theoretically you could do the 90 day fast track thing, survey for a year and you're be in the right seat of an RJ at around 1 year.

 

[Tommay85]

10 years? Are you talking major airline? Do you think everyone flies 200 hours a year? Heck that used to just be a crazy month.
Theoretically you could do the 90 day fast track thing, survey for a year and you're be in the right seat of an RJ at around 1 year.

Yep, around 1000s hours and 80k(60ish after taxes) in 8 months of flying. That gets you the hours for a job and knocks out all flight training debt. Not to mention, a ton of experience.

 

[z987k]

Yep, around 1000s hours and 80k(60ish after taxes) in 8 months of flying. That gets you the hours for a job and knocks out all flight training debt. Not to mention, a ton of experience.

Well not everyone can do the same job. Not enough to go around. But theoretically.

 

[Tommay85]

Well not everyone can do the same job. Not enough to go around. But theoretically.

Yar

 

[I_Money]

Doctor's aren't as wealthy as many people believe. While there are some old doctors who are doing well, people starting out have college loans at levels never before seen as well as ever increasing reimbursement. Yes some will do well, all will do OK but IMHO it doesn't provide the lifestyle where your plane will be so cool you won't miss your dream. 172 most likely, Extra 300 maybe much more than that very unlikely.

 

[swisspilot]

To the OP, you might want to look at this
http://www.flightsafetyacademy.com/fsa_candidate_opportunity.php
You have get your ratings first, but sounds like a good way to reach 1500 without paying for your CFI

Yes it is a good opportunity, good school, huge amount of (foreign) students. It is two years but there are plenty of different programs you can join that will change your scenario. After 2 years as a CFI there I wouldn`t probably considering the airlines anymore but rather move to a FSI center and work as sim SIC until get picked up by a corporate outfit.

Time flies there too...it`s crazy I have friends that stayed there for 3 years after I left...it seems yesterday when I did my last dual given flight at FSA.

 

[swisspilot]

Doctor's aren't as wealthy as many people believe. While there are some old doctors who are doing well, people starting out have college loans at levels never before seen as well as ever increasing reimbursement. Yes some will do well, all will do OK but IMHO it doesn't provide the lifestyle where your plane will be so cool you won't miss your dream. 172 most likely, Extra 300 maybe much more than that very unlikely.

I don`t think it only matters what the job is paying to own an airplane, I know of people that own an airplane on a 24K salary. What makes a difference is your debt, and ow much you owe each month to creditors (car,...). Maybe you can`t skip a loan for medical school, but for flying is totally possible, I always get a smile when somebody tells me they got their CPL when they were 18....great way to start your life 50-60K under. I could have done it too at 18-20 but I didn`t, I worked and saved up, now several years later even while making less then 30K a year I can afford a C172, yes maybe I won`t be flying it much...

 

[JustinS]

Dude, the original poster has 16 hours and has come onto this board looking to be a professional airline pilot. It now takes 1500 hours and an ATP to be able to get an interview to fly passengers for an airline. How is the original poster going to get to 1500 hours and an ATP for $60,000?

I get you did it for less prior to the new requirements. So did it. That was yesterday. Now we are at a whole new time and the original poster is asking the question.

So I will restate the question for him.

How will this pilot with 16 hours get to an ATP rating for $60,000?

Joe

Did you read my first post in this topic? I heavily implied he should be a doctor. My second reply was to say it shouldn't take over $60,000 to get to ATP. Like others said, you get a job building flight time. I might not be flying heavy metal, but I'm getting paid to fly. It's also more than first year regional pay for most regionals.

 

[swisspilot]

At some point those countries that are sending the pilots over for training will be able to train their pilots on their own soil.

It`s not going to happen, for several factors. For most European pilots and airlines weather is just not good enough for any length of time in most of Europe, Portugal and Spain which have good weather are doing pretty bad as far as flight training, the CAE Academy in Portugal closed down and most of the students are now off to AZ, the cost of of operating an airplane is too high, especially for airline programs the cost is just too steep. On average getting a pilot license in Europe with all the requirements asked by an airline is costing 60-80% more then in the US. As far as Asia there are always been flight schools, and many new have been built in the past years mainly in China, Korea and Malaysia, still it is more profitable to come to the US, keep in mind AVGAS is in short supply all over Asia, if you have done any intl flight you probably got a taste of that even just outside the US borders, yes you have the diesel planes but they are still not as popular and with the acquisition and operating costs they end up being just as expensive as a conventional plane running on premium AVGAS, well unless you take an old beat up 172 and you convert it. Many countries have airspaces that are just not made for flight training. If the US will loose intl students they will be lost to places like South Africa and Australia, where there are less restrictive immigration rules and TSA nonsense. Indonesia is as far as I know one of the only countries that is trying to rely solely on new built flight school to supply the local demanding airline industry, is it working out? No.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Before you give up a promising career in a great field, you really need to figure out if you'll "love" this career. First, finish your private before giving up your current career. Then, find a buddy who owns an airplane and convince him to let you borrow it for four days if you'll pay for the fuel. Then, wake up at 4am and head out to the airport to fly your buddy's airplane. Fly it for 8 hours broken up into 6 legs. Take 40 minutes between flights to take a piss and grab a snack in the FBO. After you've done that, park the plane and go home. Give yourself 8 hours from airplane tie-down until you're back at the airplane the next morning. Then do it all again. Repeat for two more days.

If you still "love" flying after that, then this career is for you, and you should give up the current medical career path. If you feel like punching a puppy after that four days, though, then stick with your current path. Aviation for a career isn't what Dicaprio made it look like in "Catch Me if You Can." This isn't 1965 Pan Am. If the brutal 5 legs a day grind for days on end with 4 am wake up calls makes you miserable, then run away. Because that's likely all you'll see in this profession for years. It takes a hell of a long time to get where Derg is.

 

[nc1982]

Like you, ever since I was little I wanted nothing more than to be an airline pilot. Now that I am one, I wish I had gone to med school to become a doctor. I didn't have the brains to become a doctor, hence why I am an airline pilot.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

99.9% of doctors make nowhere near enough to afford their own P-51, fyi. Think more like a C182. One of the most successful doctors I know has a Cessna 400, and he is clearly one of the higher earners around.

The only two folks I know that fly their own jets are physicians. Some doctors, like pilots, can make terrible financial decisions. But certainly not all of them. Trying to run your own general practice, or be an AME? Well, you aren't going to get rich doing that.

I know someone that has a P-51. Care to guess what they do for a living?

 

[drunkenbeagle]

Everything has been going great. I have a 3.8 GPA, I'm a research assistant in a lab, and I'm also a graduate assistant. But I'm willing to drop everything and pursue my dream to be a pilot.

My question to you all is where do I start? As far as the quickest/most cost effective way to get from 16hrs---> ATP and flying for an airline?

Here are my thoughts as a 34 year old engineer and part time CFI. I instruct, tow, fly gliders, and pretty much can be in an airplane whenever I want. The day job still wins, hands down, compared to an airline gig. You have many options in medicine, many that don't actually involve practicing medicine in any way, that still pay handsomely. You can work out a schedule that lets you fly as much or as little as you like.

Coming from someone that could fly full time right now - it isn't worth it.

If you really have your heart set on it, fly on the side. Find a glider club, fly a few hundred hours there. That shouldn't cost you more than a few thousand bucks. You can add the commercial airplane and instructor ratings to the glider ones pretty quickly. Then get a CFI, teach on the side for a few more years. After that, when you are done with med school, you'll have the time for an ATP. I know a doctor that is a CFI... Very do-able.

 

[mastermags]

I know a lot of guys who fly that say "if I would have known how things were gonna go I would have gone to med school." I typically say "No, you wouldn't have. People don't just GO to med school, it's a big fricking deal." Here you are on the cusp and you are already thinking about getting out. It looks like you came here to get flying advice, not advice on med school. I think jtrain609 nailed it on the head.

Look at a few of the advertised schools in the forums. You will get to speak with some people who are actually attending and can give you the ins and outs of it.

 

[Jet]

How much longer do you have in your medical school/training? If you're close I would recommend finishing that and maybe working on the private or instrument on the side if you have time. Then you could at least try the medical field and have a good financial way to support your flight training. If thats not what you want then you could drop everything and spend about $60k at ATP and get everything up to CFI in less than 6 months (so they claim) or rent a 150 then Seminole at a cheaper FBO for about $40-$50k which will probably take a year or more. At this point you will have about 280 hours so you will need to flight instruct until 1500. At a busy 141 school you could build 80-110 hrs a month so realistically you would need at least 1.5 to 2 years to go from 16 hrs to 1500 and that is going balls to the wall, having no life and neglecting family life. I know a guy who had 0 hours, went to ATP school and in exactly 1 years time he was sitting in Indoc at Eagle but that was before the 1500 hr rule of course.

At any rate, don't be that old 70 year old guy sitting on his front porch looking up at a jet passing by still wondering what if....... At the same time don't make any financially poor decisions. If you're close to making good money in the medical field then finish starting that career, save up and park it on the back burner if you still want to leave so then you at least have a backup just incase you get furloughed from the airlines and realize that the job wasnt what you thought it would be. Everybody is different. I went to grad school, made awesome money and my friends still think I'm crazy for leaving my old paycheck to fly in the regionals but I have never looked backed.

 

[GypsyPilot]

Here are my thoughts as a 34 year old engineer and part time CFI. I instruct, tow, fly gliders, and pretty much can be in an airplane whenever I want. The day job still wins, hands down, compared to an airline gig. You have many options in medicine, many that don't actually involve practicing medicine in any way, that still pay handsomely. You can work out a schedule that lets you fly as much or as little as you like.

Coming from someone that could fly full time right now - it isn't worth it.

If you really have your heart set on it, fly on the side. Find a glider club, fly a few hundred hours there. That shouldn't cost you more than a few thousand bucks. You can add the commercial airplane and instructor ratings to the glider ones pretty quickly. Then get a CFI, teach on the side for a few more years. After that, when you are done with med school, you'll have the time for an ATP. I know a doctor that is a CFI... Very do-able.

It wasn't worth it to you. I am also an engineer, and staying in engineering wasn't worth it to me. I'm happily employed as a pilot, and have been flying for a living full time for over six years now. Not a long time, but long enough to instruct, work in 135, corporate, and a regional. I've flown as a captain on a jet, gone back to being a SIC on a turboprop, and have had many other ups and downs.

The point is, I've been doing this long enough and seen enough to get past the honeymoon stage. I was a good engineer, and still have a standing job offer if I were to choose to come back. I won't unless I have to, like as in lose my medical. I really enjoy flying, and it's a fantastic lifestyle despite the gloom and doom attitude displayed by people like ATN. Every once in awhile I get a day or trip that sucks. But overall, it's fun, rewarding, and gives me a TON of free time with no work stress.

One difference between you and me is that I did my career change when I was in my 20s. Would I have done it at your age? I don't know, possibly not. I'm 36 now, and I definitely have a different outlook in life than when I was 26. But I'm having a blast, and am excited about my upcoming opportunities.

I do strongly agree that the OP needs to at least get his PPL before making a decision. I've seen a lot of people that just knew professional aviation was for them, and then never even make it through a private pilot course for whatever reason.

 

[GypsyPilot]

How much longer do you have in your medical school/training? If you're close I would recommend finishing that and maybe working on the private or instrument on the side if you have time. Then you could at least try the medical field and have a good financial way to support your flight training. If thats not what you want then you could drop everything and spend about $60k at ATP and get everything up to CFI in less than 6 months (so they claim) or rent a 150 then Seminole at a cheaper FBO for about $40-$50k which will probably take a year or more. At this point you will have about 280 hours so you will need to flight instruct until 1500. At a busy 141 school you could build 80-110 hrs a month so realistically you would need at least 1.5 to 2 years to go from 16 hrs to 1500 and that is going balls to the wall, having no life and neglecting family life. I know a guy who had 0 hours, went to ATP school and in exactly 1 years time he was sitting in Indoc at Eagle but that was before the 1500 hr rule of course.

At any rate, don't be that old 70 year old guy sitting on his front porch looking up at a jet passing by still wondering what if....... At the same time don't make any financially poor decisions. If you're close to making good money in the medical field then finish starting that career, save up and park it on the back burner if you still want to leave so then you at least have a backup just incase you get furloughed from the airlines and realize that the job wasnt what you thought it would be. Everybody is different. I went to grad school, made awesome money and my friends still think I'm crazy for leaving my old paycheck to fly in the regionals but I have never looked backed.

Jet nailed it. Excellent advice.