Thinking about making a complete 180 and pursuing my original dream.

It will take you tens of thousands of dollars and a few years to get 1500 TT or competitive mins. That debt wont pay down nearly as quick. You will have to slum it through early regional pay for a few years. As a first year doctor you will be making 10 year RJ captain pay, be able to pay off debt and fly for a hobby. All of this while living in your own house, in a the city of your choosing.
 
At Riddle maybe. The actual flight training portion costs about $60,000 realistically. A college degree could be another $80,000 or so depending on the school you go to but the OP already has a degree.

I don't know what the fixation on flying right seat in a CRJ for $22,000 is either, that's not the only job in aviation.

Indeed, but this forum is dominated by 121 types who's primary goal is to fly a mainline, building sized bird someday. That is the typical end goal here. Which is cool and all, but yes, there are other, and most of the time, much better paying jobs out there that can be pursued to knock out debt. Then pursue what you fancy.
 
I would finish med school, become a doctor then buy a plane and fly for fun. But at the end of the day, its your decision.

Make it and have no regrets! Good luck man!
 
Hey guys. I'm a long time member, although I haven't been posting much recently.

Long story short: Throughout my childhood/teen years I wanted to be a pilot. I soloed at 18, and I currently have about 16 hours but I haven't flown since 2007.

Due to family/personal issues I gained interest in the healthcare industry. I graduated from college with a BS, and currently pursuing a masters in medical science; I'm applying to medical school next year.

Everything has been going great. I have a 3.8 GPA, I'm a research assistant in a lab, and I'm also a graduate assistant. But I'm willing to drop everything and pursue my dream to be a pilot.

My question to you all is where do I start? As far as the quickest/most cost effective way to get from 16hrs---> ATP and flying for an airline?



I'll respond with an important question that has yet to be asked...
Why have you pursued the medical field to begin with, and what are your reasons for wanting to leave it?
 
See if you really enjoy it before making a drastic life change.

Take some more lessons and finish the PPL. Build some cross-country time and then work your way through the instrument rating. Love it? Hate it? It's alright? Let your gut tell you once you have some flight time under your belt!

If nothing else, you are set up to fly for a hobby.
 
Well, we don't want foolish doctors, do we? So if you want to do it, you should do it, becuase you're impulsive and irresponsible and I don't want you anywhere near me or anyone I love whilst holding an ice cream cone, let alone a scalpel.
 
I wouldn't trade a medical career for the airline industry. Corporate possibly, but it's a huge gamble. Your chance of financially and professionally prospering in your current position is close to 100%. The chance of professionally prospering in aviation is probably 75%. The chance of you financially prospering are probably less than 50%. That's my take. The airline business model hasn't changed, in fact it has been fiscally gutted over the last 20 years. Your chance of being a lifer at a major without a furlough are slim. Life at the regionals is dismal at best. It's almost impossible to be a lifer at a regional. Corporate is good and getting better but the number of quality part 91 jobs will always be limited.
 
What you are contemplating is the exact opposite of what I did. In 2009 I applied to med school after flight instructing for 2 years, deferred for a year (got married), and am now in my 3rd year of med school. So far, I am overall happy with my choice and would do it again, although I definitely question the decision on a regular basis.

For me, med school came out as the winning option because of some lifestyle requirements I have being a Torah-observant Jew. I don't work on Saturday (difficult in medicine, virtually impossible in aviation outside of instruction), I plan on sending my kids (2 so far and hoping for more) to private school to the tune of $15-20K/year, and I need to be able to live near a large Jewish community. However, without these needs, medicine would have been a much more difficult sell.

Basically, what I've learned in the past 2 years is that med school is an unbelievable grind, beyond anything I had imagined. I have gotten minimal sleep (often 3-4 hrs/night), received average grades despite working harder than ever before, spent countless hours memorizing minutiae that is boring as nails, and been profoundly humbled. It's been a growth experience, but it's also been a drag.

However, I'm halfway to an almost guaranteed salary of $45-50K growing to $60K for 3-6 years (residency/fellowship), and then an almost guaranteed $150-500K salary for the rest of my career depending on what field I go into. And, for the most part, I will get to do 2 things that few in aviation can do: 1) choose where I live, as physician jobs are generally available everywhere, and 2) maintain my salary if I change jobs (i.e. no seniority system).

But there are lots of changes coming in healthcare, and no one knows what the future will look like in 10-20-30 years. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.

And, I've learned that many doctors are not happy. The reality of caring for patients is rarely what an aspiring doctor thinks it will be when they write their personal statement for their med school application. Many doctors struggle to find satisfaction, and many choose money over work they enjoy, often paying for it with their happiness. Some of those who truly love their work trade the traditional doctor's salary for that privilege, and would be lucky to be able to afford an ultralight.

However, medicine is a much broader field than aviation, and there are more opportunities to grow one's career in a myriad of directions. Our society reveres and honors physicians more than it does pilots, and this leads to more opportunities in business and other areas where good leadership and initiative can flourish.

So my advice to you is: get your ratings AS CHEAP AS YOU CAN. Try out flying. Instruct for a few years, fly freight, or take whatever other opportunities come your way to see where you are after you've really spent some time in the cockpit. Right now you have more dreams than experience and you don't want to make permanent life decisions on that basis. Fortunately, you don't have to. Medicine will always be there for you. You can apply when you are 25, 30, and even later. And, med schools absolutely adore pilots.

The best of luck to you!
 
Holmes,


If you want to fly airplanes, fly airplanes. The folks here have no idea what goes into completing, let alone being accepted to, professional school. If you're in the middle of a masters degree right now, you've probably got a pretty good idea of what lies in front of you. With that, don't let the internet dissuade you from dropping the medical school route and flying airplanes, as the tubes generally consider taking the ATP written to be a challenging academic course and thus have no idea what kind of dedication it takes to get to where you are, and to get to where you could be going.

Find a way to make training as affordable as possible, but at the same time, consider the time value of money and what it will mean over your career in the long term. Being able to complete training and get to the job you want quicker is a sliding scale of value, and you're only person that can decide where on that scale you fall. Don't simply discount the idea of taking out loans because "DEBT SUCKS." If you're this far into your education, you likely understand what it takes to weigh the risk vs reward of making an investment using a variety of financial instruments to complete your education. If you use those same skills that got you to where you are today, you'll find applying them to your training for flying is no different than selecting a grad school; there are a multitude of options, and you need to find the one that works for YOU. As you know, don't buy into the idea that X way of training is THE ONLY WAY. If somebody told you that only private universities were worth your time, and all state school were a pathway to failure, you'd know to discount what they were saying. This is no different.

If I were you, I'd research some options and then come back with them here and you'll likely get some more meaningful responses than, "DEBT SUCKS" and "FLYING SUCKS TOO!"
 
Hey guys. I'm a long time member, although I haven't been posting much recently.

Long story short: Throughout my childhood/teen years I wanted to be a pilot. I soloed at 18, and I currently have about 16 hours but I haven't flown since 2007.

Due to family/personal issues I gained interest in the healthcare industry. I graduated from college with a BS, and currently pursuing a masters in medical science; I'm applying to medical school next year.

Everything has been going great. I have a 3.8 GPA, I'm a research assistant in a lab, and I'm also a graduate assistant. But I'm willing to drop everything and pursue my dream to be a pilot.

My question to you all is where do I start? As far as the quickest/most cost effective way to get from 16hrs---> ATP and flying for an airline?


You start by understanding what you are getting yourself in to.

Flying a Cessna for fun is vastly different than flying a Boeing for a living. The pilot profession and the airline industry are two different things, and it is important to understand both of them. The words quickest and cost effective are don't occur simultaneously in aviation, or for that matter, anywhere. The same is true for more money and more time off are. Money comes from productivity, and productivity comes from work.
 
You sound very far along in your current situation to be making that kind of change. You need to think for a while about what you realllllyyyy want to do for the rest of your life. For how far you are, it seems like you're set up well for an easy going life someday. Aviation is not for the weak at heart. Your patience, zeal, and passion will be tested to the limits at times. That's where I see many people flake in this field when they get pushed pass their limits. They realize they want a cushy 8-5 job making big money instead. Allthough I haven't been in GypsyPilot 's shoes, I have envisioned myself working a hum drum job making big money and going nowhere. To me the adventure, uncertainty and change of scenery while getting by just fine without worrying about money is what I want to do. I've seen wealthy people get consumed by their money. They forget how to enjoy life, and it usually ruins them.
 
At Riddle maybe. The actual flight training portion costs about $60,000 realistically. A college degree could be another $80,000 or so depending on the school you go to but the OP already has a degree.

I don't know what the fixation on flying right seat in a CRJ for $22,000 is either, that's not the only job in aviation.

"In order to get to the point of being paid to fly passengers"

Please tell me how you are going to go from zero to ATP for $60,000.

And how many years will it take for that to happen in the real world?

Joe
 
Please tell me how you are going to go from zero to ATP for $60,000.

And how many years will it take for that to happen in the real world?

Joe

Well.... I did up through CFI CFII MEI for less than $60,000.... Now I'm not paying another dime for any flying, and the ATP will come when I have the time. Just playing devils advocate here. There is no denying there is a lot of time and effort involved. The sooner you start, the sooner you'll get to where you want to go!
 
I am an unusual case. I am only about $70, 000 in debt from flight training. By the time I get to ATP mins I will have made most of that money back. I am very fortunate to have a job that hired me at 250tt, and pays me ok.
 
It's all about what YOU are willing to sacrifice for your dream. My wife and I sat and talked before I started my career change at 28, and it was clear what the reality will be when I start making (some) money. No •, told her the truth so there are no surprises.

3.5 years later (and $55,000 under) and I'm about to start training with a regional airline. It seems that many pilots forget how great it is to do something that you love to do. From what I've seen, usually, this job is more appreciated by people who flying isn't their "first job ever". It's all about perspective.

That being said, no doubt that flying had (much much) better days in the past. The stories I hear from the DPE's here, who used to work for the major airlines in the 60's/70's, makes spring break look like a retirement home...
 
Well.... I did up through CFI CFII MEI for less than $60,000.... Now I'm not paying another dime for any flying, and the ATP will come when I have the time. Just playing devils advocate here. There is no denying there is a lot of time and effort involved. The sooner you start, the sooner you'll get to where you want to go!

Dude, the original poster has 16 hours and has come onto this board looking to be a professional airline pilot. It now takes 1500 hours and an ATP to be able to get an interview to fly passengers for an airline. How is the original poster going to get to 1500 hours and an ATP for $60,000?

I get you did it for less prior to the new requirements. So did it. That was yesterday. Now we are at a whole new time and the original poster is asking the question.

So I will restate the question for him.

How will this pilot with 16 hours get to an ATP rating for $60,000?

Joe
 
Dude, the original poster has 16 hours and has come onto this board looking to be a professional airline pilot. It now takes 1500 hours and an ATP to be able to get an interview to fly passengers for an airline. How is the original poster going to get to 1500 hours and an ATP for $60,000?

I get you did it for less prior to the new requirements. So did it. That was yesterday. Now we are at a whole new time and the original poster is asking the question.

So I will restate the question for him.

How will this pilot with 16 hours get to an ATP rating for $60,000?

Joe

I don't get it... Is there something in the new law stating that one must pay for all of their flight time through ATP? By the time I started at a regional several years ago, I had my ATP, over 2000 hours, and had a PIC type rating. I can assure you I didn't pay for the vast majority of those hours, and was in fact paid for most of the hours past 250 when I obtained my commercial.

There are still opportunities for low time folks as flight instructors, 135, aerial mapping, etc. Heck, most years preferred 121 candidates have had well over 1500 hours anyway (including every new hire in my SkyWest class in early 2011). There's only been a smattering of years where super low time folks came through the 121 doors.

I first learned to fly 9 years ago, and had pretty much all of my ratings/CFI stuff over 6 years ago. I paid about $30,000 or so by being resourceful. There's no question costs have gone up significantly since then, and I often wonder if I would have been able to afford it at today's prices. I'm so far removed from the actual training costs now, I really have no idea. But I can't imagine it's more than 50% what I paid, even being conservative.
 
Gypsy, there are several things that have changed since you and I received our ratings. Today 100L is close to $6 a gallon. That is stopping a lot of folks from flying. Getting to the airlines now is going to be a 10 year process. Maybe that's not such a bad thing, but it's a long time to wait to begin a $22,000 a year career (at 28 years of age) that will not hit $100,000 (at 38 years of age) for ten more years after that. It's not that folks do not want to fly. The economics are just going to stop them. At this time, there is not a real way to make it work.

Some folks are counting on the CFI stuff. That may work and it may not. We do have an increase in student pilots over the past two years, but most of that increase is coming from foreign nationals. At some point those countries that are sending the pilots over for training will be able to train their pilots on their own soil. The other issue with the CFI position is that you basically starve while you are doing it because of a lot of external factors. Let's not even talk about all of the waiting around time.

The regionals were able to pick up 10's of thousands of pilots over the past 2 decades. Now they will not be able to do that. That means those CFI, pipeline and banner towing will be the only "entry level" commercial jobs. 135 will be the step up from the entry level and regional will be the step up from 135. The funnel is getting much smaller and there just will not be enough of the entry level jobs to keep the pipeline filled. That means pilots will not be able to get the hours they need and they will not get them as fast. The problem is that they will now need more of them.

Joe
 
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