Hey, jet pilot types, learn me something'

jtrain609 said:
I've never hit it. Have you?
Click to expand...

I seem to remember getting close enough up high during a .60 climb that I either picked up the speed or took an intermediate level off. Can't recall more detail than that but this thread made me think "XR TAT" so it must have triggered that for a reason.

Bottom line I think of the ridiculous number of limitations I was required to memorize at XJT compared to now and laugh. For the life of me I cannot understand why you guys have to remember specific oil pressure numbers on a scale that turns red, amber, and green (Err whatever colors I can't remember). Wouldn't 2 mins in the red and 5 minutes in the amber (or whatever the times were) suffice? Perhaps we've taken it to the other extreme but that's a different thread.
 
The problem with the oil pressures is that there are two times in the amber. 111-115 for 5 minutes, 116 to 155 for 2 minutes, for a total overpressure time of not greater than 5 minutes.

What's insanity is the memory item for uncommanded swerving on the ground. The book has one thing, but I'm pretty sure for the folks that have seen it, the memory items go something, "HOLY CRAP! PULL THE TRIGGER!!! PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER!!!! *bumpbumpbump* as the aircraft goes off the runway." Rumor has it that it happens so fast there's almost nothing you can do about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLF
The only thing I know is that it's absurd when you consider that the DC9 had far less, well check that, virtually no logic to protect you the pilot and probably had 1/4 of the limitations. My unsubstantiated opinion is that some school house yahoo in IAH retired off the ATR and was anointed ERJ sim genius and never "got it." Maybe it's a carryover from CAL or just a manufacturer thing, I don't know enough to say. Don't misunderstand me, like I said, I freely admit that we've let systems knowledge go a little too far in the other direction.
 
Cav said:
The only thing I know is that it's absurd when you consider that the DC9 had far less, well check that, virtually no logic to protect you the pilot and probably had 1/4 of the limitations. My unsubstantiated opinion is that some school house yahoo in IAH retired off the ATR and was anointed ERJ sim genius and never "got it." Maybe it's a carryover from CAL or just a manufacturer thing, I don't know enough to say. Don't misunderstand me, like I said, I freely admit that we've let systems knowledge go a little too far in the other direction.
Click to expand...


I'm down in requal right now, and it's been interesting watching things change over three qualification events. The ASA guys have changed a lot of things for the better, but unfortunately they don't understand some fundamental truths about this airplane. So the overall training philosophy is better, but they think the ERJ is the CRJ, which couldn't be further from the truth.
 
jtrain609 said:
I'm down in requal right now, and it's been interesting watching things change over three qualification events. The ASA guys have changed a lot of things for the better, but unfortunately they don't understand some fundamental truths about this airplane. So the overall training philosophy is better, but they think the ERJ is the CRJ, which couldn't be further from the truth.
Click to expand...

Delta tried to do the same thing with many aspects of the DC9 trying to make it align with the MD88. Two different animals.
 
That's why the conventional wisdom about the MD-90 was pure jack-assery.

The MD-88 is not a DC-9. However we tried our best to make it a "big" DC-9. Then when the -90 came, we scrapped the 717-style flight deck and demanded it come with an MD-88 style configuration so it was seen as a big MD-88 which was supposed to be a big DC-9.

Now compare the characteristics of flying a -9 and a -90. It's night and day. But when you try to fly and maintain a -90 like a -9, you're going to get your ass whipped.
 
jtrain609 said:
I'm down in requal right now, and it's been interesting watching things change over three qualification events. The ASA guys have changed a lot of things for the better, but unfortunately they don't understand some fundamental truths about this airplane. So the overall training philosophy is better, but they think the ERJ is the CRJ, which couldn't be further from the truth.
Click to expand...
"Oh great."

(How dare they insult Embraer like that!?)
 
To answer something that was posted earlier, I can tell you with ultimate certainty, having flown for both Pinnacle and ASA/ExpressJet, that the FL370 limitation on the CRJ200 is a company imposed limitation by Pinnacle as a result of 3701. ASA/ExpressJet has no such limitation and is certified up to FL410.
 
To all:

When you get bored in flight, take a peek at your performance charts and pay special attention to under what particular atmospheric conditions (temperature, turbulence situation) and weights where you can actually reach the max altitude.
 
jtrain609 said:
The problem with the oil pressures is that there are two times in the amber. 111-115 for 5 minutes, 116 to 155 for 2 minutes, for a total overpressure time of not greater than 5 minutes.

What's insanity is the memory item for uncommanded swerving on the ground. The book has one thing, but I'm pretty sure for the folks that have seen it, the memory items go something, "HOLY CRAP! PULL THE TRIGGER!!! PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER!!!! *bumpbumpbump* as the aircraft goes off the runway." Rumor has it that it happens so fast there's almost nothing you can do about it.
Click to expand...

I've spoken to one person who was expecting it because the plane swerved just as they rotated. Because they were lightning fast with the trigger, they were able to (barely) keep it on the runway when they landed. I was at both recent incidents (CAK and MLI). Scary stuff.
 
pilotmg1501 said:
To answer something that was posted earlier, I can tell you with ultimate certainty, having flown for both Pinnacle and ASA/ExpressJet, that the FL370 limitation on the CRJ200 is a company imposed limitation by Pinnacle as a result of 3701. ASA/ExpressJet has no such limitation and is certified up to FL410.
Click to expand...

Thank you. It would've had to have come out in the last 6 months for me to miss it, if it had changed. I try to read the limitations at least once a year... ;)
 
Derg said:
To all:

When you get bored in flight, take a peek at your performance charts and pay special attention to under what particular atmospheric conditions (temperature, turbulence situation) and weights where you can actually reach the max altitude.
Click to expand...

Especially true in these fast/slow indicator jets without the speed tape. Get so used to seeing your envelope in red checkerboard, it's easy to ignore the limitations when you don't have that crutch.
 
Yup. When you're light, it may be too warm. When it's cold, you may be to heavy.

Is it 100% smooth? Are you in light turbulence with forecast moderate? You can enjoy a spanky high speed stall if you're at altitude and the bumps start.

I can't remember, is this part of the ATP curriculum? Curricula? Err "stuff we gotta know"?
 
Derg said:
You can enjoy a spanky high speed stall if you're at altitude and the bumps start.
Click to expand...

Been there, done that. Happened at the last gig in the tropics during hurricane season. Mach buffet in a heavy jet at altitude is rather alarming. Thankfully we were at optimum and had full maneuvering margin; we needed all of it. Story for NJC.
 
Derg said:
To all:

When you get bored in flight, take a peek at your performance charts and pay special attention to under what particular atmospheric conditions (temperature, turbulence situation) and weights where you can actually reach the max altitude.
Click to expand...

And then the other guy will go "really?"

(Um. Yeah, really, dude.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top