Sully and the 1500h rule
- Thread starter ArcherII
- Start date
KLB
Well-Known Member
A pilot that says that he/she doesn't make a mistake every now and then is not a very truthful pilot. The FO and I are both fairly new to the aircraft. We have been backing each other up well though!
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
I was not the low-time Bro driver this morning. I guess this means I've been flying it just long enough to be dangerous.A pilot that says that he/she doesn't make a mistake every now and then is not a very truthful pilot. The FO and I are both fairly new to the aircraft. We have been backing each other up well though!
Cruise
Well-Known Member
^^This^^ There is really little, to zero, excuse as to why an instructor doesn't get the requisite X/C time for the ATP while instructing. You're not only doing yourself a disservice, but your student as well. Think and formulate a plan on how to achieve your objectives.
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
Bingo... People that say that CFIing is 1 hour repeated x amount of times are awful instructors. I created a tremendous amount of variation in my ability to present even the same lesson different ways as well as take weather opportunities to accomplish requirements as needed.
For example: Low IFR day with clear on top for a PPL? VFR on top air manuevers with their first actual time in clouds on the way up and down! I got flight time, they got incredibly valuable time in the real stuff where they can't cheat. Pulled variations of that one several times.
sounddoc
Well-Known Member
My objectives are not to waste my student's time and money filling up my log book with the hours that I need. My objective is to teach them to be responsible, safe pilots. My objective as an instructor isn't just to check off the boxes for my own needs. This is why my schedule is full, why my students trust and respect me. Planning an instructional flight to get what you need is a disservice to your student, unless they are at the point in their training where they'll benefit from the elements of a XC flight. You have to keep in mind the planes I teach in do about 90 over the ground, and that's in a straight line, not doing maneuvers. Going somewhere 50nm away would be the entire 2 hour block that makes up a normal lesson.
Now if we're talking point to point 135 XC time...i got that covered as there are plenty of airports around and my students like going somewhere new that doesn't empty their wallet more than usual
Agreed, that's great, and I do the same, but this is not what the thread is about. As far as the CFI is concerned, you get about 5 hours 50nm XC with a student if you're doing things right, maybe less if they are really good. On average, lets say a student finishes in about 40 - 50 hours (part 61), that's 1/8 - 1/10 of your time XC. Go ahead and play with that fraction for different situations.
500 is 1/3 of 1500.
make sense now?
z987k
Well-Known Member
My objectives are not to waste my student's time and money filling up my log book with the hours that I need. My objective is to teach them to be responsible, safe pilots. My objective as an instructor isn't just to check off the boxes for my own needs. This is why my schedule is full, why my students trust and respect me. Planning an instructional flight to get what you need is a disservice to your student, unless they are at the point in their training where they'll benefit from the elements of a XC flight. You have to keep in mind the planes I teach in do about 90 over the ground, and that's in a straight line, not doing maneuvers. Going somewhere 50nm away would be the entire 2 hour block that makes up a normal lesson.
Now if we're talking point to point 135 XC time...i got that covered as there are plenty of airports around and my students like going somewhere new that doesn't empty their wallet more than usual
Agreed, that's great, and I do the same, but this is not what the thread is about. As far as the CFI is concerned, you get about 5 hours 50nm XC with a student if you're doing things right, maybe less if they are really good. On average, lets say a student finishes in about 50 hours (part 61), that's 1/10 of your time XC. Go ahead and play with that fraction for different situations.
500 is 1/3 of 1500.
make sense now?
Remember that you don't have to land for the ATP requirement.
sounddoc
Well-Known Member
z987k
Well-Known Member
dude....piper tomahawks!
Well enjoy it. I love getting back in to slow little things... and I still fly a "light" twin.
sounddoc
Well-Known Member
I had a multi private who didn't mind doing maneuvers to an airport 50.5nm away. But I was up front, and he knew what was going on. Trying to non-chalantly, or even chalantly getting a student in a winged lawnmower to go 50nm away during their lesson on steep turns is bad for business.
KLB
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, having students fly to and land at airports other than their home airport enhances the learning experience. I never gouged students but I did my best to show them as many different type of environments as possible.
sounddoc
Well-Known Member
Exactly - the variation helps combat instructor burnout as well! To get back on topic, we need 50nm XC time. For a lot of us, that means doing a another job before getting to the regionals. There's now another step between flight instructing and the airlines which hasn't existed for a couple decades.
I'm all for higher time pilots in the cockpit of 121 ops, but my original point was that it would be nice if dual given had some credit (none, currently) towards higher certificates, instead of just burning a couple hours at a time around new england at 55% power when I can afford it.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
My objectives are not to waste my student's time and money filling up my log book with the hours that I need. My objective is to teach them to be responsible, safe pilots. My objective as an instructor isn't just to check off the boxes for my own needs. This is why my schedule is full, why my students trust and respect me. Planning an instructional flight to get what you need is a disservice to your student, unless they are at the point in their training where they'll benefit from the elements of a XC flight. You have to keep in mind the planes I teach in do about 90 over the ground, and that's in a straight line, not doing maneuvers. Going somewhere 50nm away would be the entire 2 hour block that makes up a normal lesson.
Now if we're talking point to point 135 XC time...i got that covered as there are plenty of airports around and my students like going somewhere new that doesn't empty their wallet more than usual
I hear what you're saying, however I respectfully maintain if you're not getting your X/C time while teaching primary students, you're doing something wrong. That said, I do not advocate that every flight you take works out to be X/C flight time. However, if you're creative enough, both you and your student will benefit from X/C. I am NOT advocating you milking your student for your benefit.....if done properly, both student and instructor should benefit in one way or another.
Disagree completely. But to each, his(her) own.
sounddoc
Well-Known Member
How is it done? We have one airport 50.5nm away, that's the closest defining navaid/airport/fix that I can put in the logbook. I have primary students in Cherokees and Tomahawks to play with. The plane does 105/90kts respectively, and students block off 2 hours resulting in about 1.2-1.5 flying time. It's just not possible, but I'm open to suggestion. You know I teach in a part 61 environment too, right? Students typically pay lesson to lesson, and they're not airline-bound.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Actually, no I have zero knowledge of what you're teaching. Perhaps you have a special circumstance that prevents you from accomplishing your goals. For what it's worth, I too taught in a Part 61 environment and managed to make it happen. Hell, if you have an airport that's 50.5nm away, you can't ask for anything better....the airport is as close as possible to be an acceptable X/C distance....much better than the only one being 65nm away, no?
Ok, here's a thought, maybe it'll work for you, maybe it won't.......
Do you have any students that are at similar (and they really don't need to be perfectly similar....lots of learning to be had regardless) stages of learning? If so, that's a great opportunity to have each student 'backseat' the others flight. A tremendous amount of learning can be done while watching the other student make mistakes. Then, you can have one student fly one direction, while practicing whatever it is they're practicing, and the other flies back. You win, they win.....in fact, the argument could be made that you're actually saving them both money in the long run because they're learning valuable information for free by riding along as a passenger.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
My first CFI did that a few times (a buddy and I were learning to fly at the same time). Worked out well.
Finding some students that own fast airplanes works too - they won't mind going 100 miles for lunch during a BFR....
sounddoc
Well-Known Member
I've thought about doing this - it would work out if I had two students in the same plane scheduled back to back which happens sometimes (we have a huge fleet), but the downside is the owner who might want to charge ground for the backseater, which might hinder a few. I think this was floated a while back without much success, but I'm more than willing to give it a shot and see what happens. I've been suggested this, as well as 7nm DME holds of a VOR 43 miles away
I agree, I believe Sully is a puppet pandering fear among certain groups in order to achieve higher wages overall for pilots. The way union contracts are structured at some companies for starting pay to be increased you had better darn well increase my pay as well or I will be pitching a b---h with all the other mid-level and senior pilots at my company. This guy has a agenda and it has nothing to do with safety. All of us pilots started somewhere, it just so happens I came from a civilian background in which I am very proud of after 35 years worth of no accidents/incidents but plenty of mistakes to learn from. Fly safe my friends!
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I can't criticize Sully given all of the work inside and outside of aviation he's doing right now. He could have taken his fame and "Yeagered" it (patent pending) but instead he's tried to use it to create good - even if some here disagree with it.