DCA River Visual 19 Question

killbilly

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Gents - a question for you.

When you fly the River Visual, are you required to stay over the water until that hard right turn over gravelly point to short final, or are you allowed to lop off the corner and pass REALLY REALLY LOW over the Pentagon?
 
If you go straight in to 15 you go right over it.

If you turn early departing 1 or depart 33 you go right over it.

On the river visual to 19 however you pretty much are supposed to stay over the river.
 
wheelsup said:
If you go straight in to 15 you go right over it.

If you turn early departing 1 or depart 33 you go right over it.

On the river visual to 19 however you pretty much are supposed to stay over the river.
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Aha. Okay. That makes more sense. It must not have been 19 we went into.

We were in a Dash 8 RIGHT over the Pentagon - pretty low. Figured it had to be kosher, but I was really surprised.
 
Kingairer said:
No doubt you landed 15.
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Yeah, makes sense. Liked the flight - CRW to DCA. Crew seemed like good guys. Just went I saw the Pentagon that close I was having a WTF? moment because I just assumed that aircraft couldn't fly that low there. Obviously they can.
 
I've flown this approach several times and have never remembered to look for the pentagon. I always forget dangit!
 
killbilly said:
Aha. Okay. That makes more sense. It must not have been 19 we went into.

We were in a Dash 8 RIGHT over the Pentagon - pretty low. Figured it had to be kosher, but I was really surprised.
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Certainly has the "I cant believe this is legal" feel to it when youre flying it too.
 
When I was a junior reserve at USAir I did a lot of shuttle flying (post 727 / pre Airbus) with pilots who had been flying into DCA for most of their careers. I learned a lot watching their techniques. A few years later I found myself going in there again with young guys at Comair.

I used to marvel at the way Comair guys flew that approach. The river visual is a noise abatement approach that happens to have some restricted airspace nearby...NOT a restricted area avoidance maneuver - And yet pilots were terrified of the east bank of the river.

The thing is, if you fly closer to the east bank it is a nice shallow easy turn to final. Much smoother than the hard turn you need to make front the West Bank of the river.

Nobody is going to shoot you down. Even staying over the center of the river dramatically reduces the bank angle required for the final turn.

(Full disclosure: it's been 9 years since I last flew that approach)
 
The number of things you can legally fly right over down here in Norfolk is quite surprising as well. Granted, it's not quite as high profile as the Pentagon, but still gets you thinking about the impact it could have on the world if something malicious were to happen.
 
A few years ago our company sent out a memo saying, while flying over the pentagon was legal, if able, try and avoid it. Sure, ill get right on that. You are 4-500ft high when you pass it, I'll do a quick left turn to avoid it and zoom back over so I can be stabilized sometime around taxing to the gate...
 
ZapBrannigan said:
The river visual is a noise abatement approach that happens to have some restricted airspace nearby...NOT a restricted area avoidance maneuver - And yet pilots were terrified of the east bank of the river.

The thing is, if you fly closer to the east bank it is a nice shallow easy turn to final. Much smoother than the hard turn you need to make front the West Bank of the river.

Nobody is going to shoot you down. Even staying over the center of the river dramatically reduces the bank angle required for the final turn.
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This! I can't stand when people hug the west bank and then have to crank 45+ degrees to make the final turn. It's so unnecessary.
 
Derg said:
I've seen it a few times. In between bouts of "this old man is going to kill me... this old man is going to kill me... this old man is going to kill me..."
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Wait.. you were the FO on that 75 that I jumpsat on between MSP and DCA a few months ago? The FO made quite a few call outs that are not normally used on a stabilized approach. :biggrin::biggrin:
 
ZapBrannigan said:
When I was a junior reserve at USAir I did a lot of shuttle flying (post 727 / pre Airbus) with pilots who had been flying into DCA for most of their careers. I learned a lot watching their techniques. A few years later I found myself going in there again with young guys at Comair.

I used to marvel at the way Comair guys flew that approach. The river visual is a noise abatement approach that happens to have some restricted airspace nearby...NOT a restricted area avoidance maneuver - And yet pilots were terrified of the east bank of the river.

The thing is, if you fly closer to the east bank it is a nice shallow easy turn to final. Much smoother than the hard turn you need to make front the West Bank of the river.

Nobody is going to shoot you down. Even staying over the center of the river dramatically reduces the bank angle required for the final turn.

(Full disclosure: it's been 9 years since I last flew that approach)
Click to expand...
Now we watch the airplane do it.
 
Kingairer said:
Now we watch the airplane do it.
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I wish I was making this up but his happened to me one time.
My briefing:
Me: River Visual 19 speed are set Vr, V2, Vt for X lbs, plan a right turn off at foxtrot no hot spots to our gate, if we go missed I will go down the river or what tower tells us to do.
CA: Are you going to build it in the FMS?
Me: No
CA: So are you going to be using white or green needles?
Me: None it is a Visual
CA: So how are you going to know if you are doing it right?
Me: I am going to look out the window.
CA: Do you mind if I build it just to feel better?
Me: knock yourself out

He then spent the next 5 minutes building the damn thing in the FMS.

Now in his defense, he was a DFW guy that had never been to DCA outside of the sim.
 
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