Foreign student pilots and English

I trained the Chinese guys for a few years out there. And yeah some of their english was really bad. From what My students told me is that when they are taught english back home, they are taught the written language, Not the spoken language. Most of the students can read the language and instantly understand it. But when it comes to speaking it is the issue. A few of the students spoke better proper english that I did, with a wider vocabulary too. And others it was a real struggle.

While Ill be the first to agree it can be better. You have got to give it to these guys. They work very very hard. The come to a foreign country, speak a foreign language, and learn how to fly airplanes. I had 22 different students signed off for 25 checkrides. Out of those 22 students only 2 knew how to drive a car, just 2. These guys have a lot to overcome and they do in 9 months what took most of us much longer to accomplish.
 
I am currently teaching chinese students as we speak. The FAA recently sent out a memo about the english proficiency and they are now targeting that. Where I teach, when they come to our school, we have a english teacher that meets with the class and helps them with their english.
 
Are most of these students sent here by an airline in their country or are they real aviation lovers looking to fly airplanes as a career?I don't why, but when I think of the Chinese airline industry, I think of it being like a military style draft when they choose their pilots.
 
SeanD said:
Are most of these students sent here by an airline in their country or are they real aviation lovers looking to fly airplanes as a career?I don't why, but when I think of the Chinese airline industry, I think of it being like a military style draft when they choose their pilots.
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They're already employed by an airline and they come over on a contract. Most are just in it for the money because it is very lucrative right now in China. Some truly enjoy flying and I have even met a few who are terrified of it and will admit it.
 
SeanD said:
Are most of these students sent here by an airline in their country or are they real aviation lovers looking to fly airplanes as a career?I don't why, but when I think of the Chinese airline industry, I think of it being like a military style draft when they choose their pilots.
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They are either sent by an Airline or by a company contracted, most of the cost is funded by the airline or the govt.

Some of this airlines have been running cadet programs for over 20 years, it`s nothing new. In some cases before you even start flight training you get sent to an University to take courses and only after that you are off to a flight school.

Standards depend on the industry, if many pilots are needed selection standards go down and vice versa.
 
chensler said:
Where I teach, when they come to our school, we have a english teacher that meets with the class and helps them with their english.
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Which is wonderful, and my school does the same thing, but these English teachers are not held accountable in the eyes of the FAA. I've had a few students sent back to the English department for remedial training just to CYA. Also document everything you can even if its just internal reports.
 
At Long Beach the worst of the English speakers were no longer allowed to talk to the tower. So a couple of years ago they packed up the really bad ones and moved to my airport... Oh joy!
 
Derg said:
I heavily suggest avoiding talking about students you've signed off that can barely speak English. Once you sign them off, you're also certifying that they can read, speak and understand the language and if they cannot, guess who is also liable? Yup. Axe me how I know.
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I think it is BS that it got pinned on you. The student is the one certifying that he reads, speaks and understands English on the 8710/IACRA. The examiner who issues the certificate verifies that.

The onus should be on the ones issuing the certificates. As CFIs, how do we know what the standards are for ICAO "English Proficiency"? We aren't trained and there is no PTS for this sort of thing.

Start with the student pilot certificates. There should be predetermined criteria, with standards in place, for issuing a student pilot certificate. That should be across the board on any certificate.

I don't mind being the English police, but I would like to have some standards or guidance as to what qualifies a student as proficient and what doesn't.
 
mojo6911 said:
I don't mind being the English police, but I would like to have some standards or guidance as to what qualifies a student as proficient and what doesn't.
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Common sense?

If we start to put standards, certifications and guidelines in everything aviation, it will just turn into an other JAA/JAR system, where you pay for everything and can`t do anything.

When I started flying in Europe you had to take a radio communication class, after an exam you would be issued a certificate..a large amount of the students there had absolute no knowledge of English, but they would do just fine with ATC phraseology, I think at the time I took the course I didn`t spoke English.
 
mojo6911 said:
As CFIs, how do we know what the standards are for ICAO "English Proficiency"? We aren't trained and there is no PTS for this sort of thing.

Start with the student pilot certificates. There should be predetermined criteria, with standards in place, for issuing a student pilot certificate. That should be across the board on any certificate.
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It's all in AC 60-28.
 
mojo6911 said:
I think it is BS that it got pinned on you. The student is the one certifying that he reads, speaks and understands English on the 8710/IACRA. The examiner who issues the certificate verifies that.
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And you as an instructor are part of that process as well....
 
Question for the group. I recently met a young lady that wants to get into flying and hopefully 121 world. She is bilingual (Chinese and English) and understands she might need to cut her teeth being an instructor before moving on to bigger and better things. She is very interested in schools that cater to Chinese students because she feels she can help bridge some of the challenges in communication if she became a CFI.
She only has 1 hr of flying time. What good schools would you folks recommend for her to go. She is interested in going from PPL to CFI and hopefully teach at the school she gets trained. Any good school y'all might recommend?


Thanks in advance
 
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This is a oldie, but a goody! It must have been baking potato hot in that 38. It's comical, however, I feel for the instructor and the frustration he must have felt!
 
When I first started flying and APC still had the Japan Air Lines training center full of Bonanzas and light twins, the CTAF's were full of thick Japanese accents in the area, especially at uncontrolled airports in the valley. For all the times I shared the pattern with them, and couldn't understand a damn word they said, never once did I see them do anything idiotic like I had seen from so many "weekend warrior" types. So at least they weren't seemingly bad pilots, or misunderstanding instructions, just had some trouble reading back. I'd hope this is the case with most.
 
Vector said:
Question for the group. I recently met a young lady that wants to get into flying and hopefully 121 world. She is bilingual (Chinese and English) and understands she might need to cut her teeth being an instructor before moving on to bigger and better things. She is very interested in schools that cater to Chinese students because she feels she can help bridge some of the challenges in communication if she became a CFI.
She only has 1 hr of flying time. What good schools would you folks recommend for her to go. She is interested in going from PPL to CFI and hopefully teach at the school she gets trained. Any good school y'all might recommend?


Thanks in advance
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She should go to any school that will hire her as an english teacher!
 
Vector said:
Question for the group. I recently met a young lady that wants to get into flying and hopefully 121 world. She is bilingual (Chinese and English) and understands she might need to cut her teeth being an instructor before moving on to bigger and better things. She is very interested in schools that cater to Chinese students because she feels she can help bridge some of the challenges in communication if she became a CFI.
She only has 1 hr of flying time. What good schools would you folks recommend for her to go. She is interested in going from PPL to CFI and hopefully teach at the school she gets trained. Any good school y'all might recommend?


Thanks in advance
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I think that Transpac Aviation Academy would be a good place for her. Pretty good FAA program and lots of Chinese students around:). Also, Tpac needs CFIs so getting hired would be super easy.
 
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