Foreign student pilots and English

averettpilot said:
http://www.kpho.com/story/22402129/former-instructor-foreign-flight-students

Thought this was interesting. Don't know the point of the article, but there you have it.
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It was touted as an "Exposé" all week on the local news.

"Danger in the skies, OVER YO HOUSE"

I heavily suggest avoiding talking about students you've signed off that can barely speak English. Once you sign them off, you're also certifying that they can read, speak and understand the language and if they cannot, guess who is also liable? Yup. Axe me how I know.
 
Pay2 said:
I think you meant Engrish.

"Ellow 248 arpha blavo, reft dow-win lunway thlee thlee" :)
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Well, in all fairness, when I was training in PRC, I spent a few flights trying to help locate a lost banana-yellow Bonanza full of Germans.
 
Derg said:
Well, in all fairness, when I was training in PRC, I spent a few flights trying to help locate a lost banana-yellow Bonanza full of Germans.
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Whenever I hear a Lufthansa pilot check in on frequency I feel like blurting out "hey fun boys, get a room!" (Simpsons reference)
 
I once had a Chinese student who couldn't tell me in English what he had for breakfast. I refused to sign him off to solo and he had previously trained with a few other instructors. Needless to say he go sent home.

These kids are supposedly pre-screened before they get over here and then given additional ESL classes with an instructor, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are ICAO level 4 proficient. And I'm not trying to knock English teachers, but they're not the ones held liable in the eyes of the FAA in most of these foreign contract schools. Just something to keep in mind.
 
Don't fall for the "He's ok, he's pre-screened" thing with any student with questionable English skills.

Once your name goes on that 8710 form, YOU are part of the group that gets called to the big rectangular desk in Oklahoma City when things go pear-shaped and they start (almost) playing bumper planes with two 747's on approach into LAX.

"It was a warm, sunny morning in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Just got type rated a few days earlier, sobering up from an alco-bender on Water Street with the late night stop at Real Chili, lips still sugary from doing shots at The Safe House... The phone rings..."
 
ryanmickG said:
I'll take the broken english pilots over the weekend warriors who like to hear themselves talk over the radio, and call every mile for 20 miles.
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Until you fly with the non-speaking Chinese student who is solo, and when he reports 10NW, you very quickly discover he is 10SE.
 
I assure you it's not only weekend warriors. I heard this on the radio the other day from a supposed professional - Center this is XXXXX about oh 15 miles south of nowhere, we departed abc at about 15 past the hour, climbing through ahhhhhh twelve thousand for two four zero, we'd like to put our clearance on request for xyz over.
It was at least a 1 minute radio call.
 
at1024 said:
I once had a Chinese student who couldn't tell me in English what he had for breakfast. I refused to sign him off to solo and he had previously trained with a few other instructors. Needless to say he go sent home.

These kids are supposedly pre-screened before they get over here and then given additional ESL classes with an instructor, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are ICAO level 4 proficient. And I'm not trying to knock English teachers, but they're not the ones held liable in the eyes of the FAA in most of these foreign contract schools. Just something to keep in mind.
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ICAO Levels have very little to do with day to day English proficiency, spoken English no matter if it comes from an English speaking Country doesn`t always mean it is good for aviation communication. Not long time ago they posted a study they did on Aviation communication by ATC and Crews from all over the world, using the standards the ICAO levels are based on, many countries where English isn`t a national language scored way better then the US for example.

I have flown both in Europe and the US, and I have to say the level of Aviation English is often better in Europe, in countries like Germany for example. At times I have an hard time to understand accents when flying around the South East of the US for example, never had this problem in Europe, the actual day to day English of many ATC operators in Europe is not that great, especially as far as vocabulary but when they are on the job, they are easy to understand.

The problem with the Chinese is that they are allowed to come into the country in the first place without meeting standards other student that are not part of a big making money contracts are held too, if you apply to any 141 as a self funded foreign student not resident in the US, you have to pass a TOEFL test, the standards I have to say are very high, and the score many aviation schools require is higher then the one of universities. I had to take the test twice to have to meet the standards, and I already had lived in the US.
 
z987k said:
I assure you it's not only weekend warriors. I heard this on the radio the other day from a supposed professional - Center this is XXXXX about oh 15 miles south of nowhere, we departed abc at about 15 past the hour, climbing through ahhhhhh twelve thousand for two four zero, we'd like to put our clearance on request for xyz over.
It was at least a 1 minute radio call.
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He was just being thorough.
 
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