RAH Union Issues

Seggy said:
It's up to the pilots at RAH.

It's just annoying/hypocritical that there are those bitching about the union but are apathetic to prompting a change.
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To he fair you do not know if people have time to volunteer. Just because you can sell your life to ALPA may not mean others can. Maybe they serve at some nonprofit in their free time. How do you know? It isn't that black and white.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Eh, that depends. Companies who do military charters are required to have ASAP, FOQA, and LOSA programs in place. The DOD will pull their charters if the programs go away. And those charters are worth big money. I don't know if RAH does DOD work, though.
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I know a bunch of vendor carriers that are also required to have a FOQA program to fly for the mainline company they have a contract with. (a great idea on the mainline carrier's part, of course)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Eh, that depends. Companies who do military charters are required to have ASAP, FOQA, and LOSA programs in place. The DOD will pull their charters if the programs go away. And those charters are worth big money. I don't know if RAH does DOD work, though.
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Didn't know that, we have in the past I don't know that we have anything now, definitely not on CHQ anyways... I wonder if it will affect the Casino flying.
 
amorris311 said:
I think it's funny he is on the hiring committee and tells pilots to look out for yourself. He's supposed to be promoting the place I thought? Kinda funny.
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I just tell it like it is. It doesn't serve me to lie to a new hire.
As a matter of fact, the less people that show up for classes, the harder it hits the companies bottom line. Which advocates change.
You don't have to be a committee member on a union to effect change.
 
Nark said:
I just tell it like it is. It doesn't serve me to lie to a new hire.
As a matter of fact, the less people that show up for classes, the harder it hits the companies bottom line. Which advocates change.
You don't have to be a committee member on a union to effect change.
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I agree. As an advocate for the company, which you are in your position, it doesn't bode well to say no one will look out for you and you have to do things on your own. That was the point of my post. I don't think I'm the only one who finds it ironic.
 
amorris311 said:
Who is your current employer? I'd be more than happy to contact them on your behalf. PM me if you would like.
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I appreciate it but ill wait until they decide if they need me. My point is people say volunteer and pitch in all the time. Then people do volunteer and get, we will call you if we need you.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Then if you aren't willing/aren't able to do better, then you shouldn't be going around criticizing those who are putting their time in. Put up or shut up.
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I follow what you're laying down here, but I do have a problem when people don't think that others should voice a dissenting opinion. Yeah, for sure don't put down the people that are willing to do the work, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with WHAT or HOW they are doing it. Just because someone doesn't have the time to devote to the cause doesn't preclude the validity of their point of view. Sometimes that is a line that people miss, ya know?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Then if you aren't willing/aren't able to do better, then you shouldn't be going around criticizing those who are putting their time in. Put up or shut up.
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Criticize someone personally for doing the job? No. But if they are criticizing the decisions made, aren't you supposed to do what your people want? If they criticize your decisions do you ever change course and move in a different direction, or do what you feel is the right move?
 
pullup said:
aren't you supposed to do what your people want?
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No. You're supposed to consider what the constituents want, but then you have to take all of the information available to you (which is usually far more than is available to your constituents) and make the best decision using your judgment and experience.
 
Kingairer said:
The ibt is doing the equivalent of a hunger strike...the problem is the wardens don't care if you die or not, in fact its cheaper if you do.
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As an outsider looking in (with union experience), there are some red flags here that made me raise my eyebrows. It is one thing if the IBT wants to pull down the scheduling committee, hotel committee, and other representative type of relationships with the company. However, the union really should not back down with the safety programs unless there has been egregious violations by the FAA and/or company and only after an extensive communication program to the pilots and company. If you pull down the ASAP/FOQA Program you need to communicate a few weeks leading up to the pull down, what to do if you as a pilot have a potential deviation, safety compromise, and other safety concerns. You also need to communicate with the company, FAA, and mainline partners (if applicable) on why you are drawing down the safety program. Finally the reason to draw down the program needs to be related to the programs, and a violation of the MOUs in place. If you don't do this specifically, you can really leave pilots exposed and safety compromised.

It is not surprising though that the RAH IBT did this though as their advisor's probably had no clue if or how to properly draw down the program.
 
Maurus said:
To he fair you do not know if people have time to volunteer. Just because you can sell your life to ALPA may not mean others can. Maybe they serve at some nonprofit in their free time. How do you know? It isn't that black and white.
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This also relates to SteveC's point as well so let me be clear, I am not saying people HAVE to volunteer to be heard. However, when union elections at regionals average 10-15 votes for represenatives in a base of a couple hundred or you have 2 people show up for a meeting, chances are they should not be bitching about it on an internet board....
 
Seggy,
That's exactly what I said a few posts up.

I'm irratated at our local because the action they've taken recently was a direct result of a board members issue.
Why didn't they pull out when we were told to 'cool it' by the NMB?
Are they truly that ignorant of the composition of an ASAP/FOQA program? How they didn't have enough forsight to see the luming issues makes me wonder what else are thy doing as a detriment to our group.
This industry has no place for those who throw 3 year old tantrums.

And to add:
Our 'pizza' party's have plenty of representation of those of us who are complaining on the Internet. We aren't talking to a wall.
 
Still less of a mess than our union leadership. We haven't even started fighting the company yet, we're still fighting amongst ourselves.
 
Seggy said:
This also relates to SteveC's point as well so let me be clear, I am not saying people HAVE to volunteer to be heard. However, when union elections at regionals average 10-15 votes for represenatives in a base of a couple hundred or you have 2 people show up for a meeting, chances are they should not be bitching about it on an internet board....
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I can understand this. You just make it sound like everyone and his mother should volunteer in the union to have an opinion.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
 
Maurus said:
I can understand this. You just make it sound like everyone and his mother should volunteer in the union to have an opinion.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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There's a difference between having an opinion on an issue, and publicly attacking an individual. If someone is going to publicly attack an individual who has stepped up to the plate, then he should step up to the plate himself. In this thread, we've seen some people not just attack an individual, but actually express joy at him losing his livelihood. Pretty pathetic.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
There's a difference between having an opinion on an issue, and publicly attacking an individual. If someone is going to publicly attack an individual who has stepped up to the plate, then he should step up to the plate himself. In this thread, we've seen some people not just attack an individual, but actually express joy at him losing his livelihood. Pretty pathetic.
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I can roll with this. He could have been the worst union leader to ever live, but it doesn't mean he should lose his primary job of flying.

I only brought up the "volunteer to have an opinion" thing because I have seen very similar responses in several threads from Seggy and some others. Sorry to say it but some people are not cut out for that type of work. Asking them to vote and go to meetings is a much more reasonable approach.
 
Nark said:
Are they truly that ignorant of the composition of an ASAP/FOQA program?
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Yes, it appears the IBT is completely ignorant of the ASAP/FOQA Program. With ALPA, the staff would not have advised the pilot group to bring down their ASAP/FOQA Program if there were no violations with their respective MOUs, no matter what was going on with Representation. The ASAP/FOQA Programs are extremely important for safety and shouldn't be used to play politics with.

As a matter of fact, the Chair of a regional pilot group represented by ALPA 'went rouge' a few years ago, and withdrew his pilot group from the ASAP Program without going through the very specific and proper channels. The ALPA staff doesn't get involved with the politics but they were VERY clear to this chair that he was acting as a detriment to his pilot group by doing this. The other pilot Representatives from this airline, saw what the staff was saying then recalled this Chair and ousted him from office.

I'd be extremely pissed with the IBT if I was at RAH right now.
 
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