Hiring tracking (opposite of furlough tracking)

ATN_Pilot said:
Ah, I see. Everyone around here is free to trash PFTers, JetU graduates, and Pinnacle pilots who get Delta interviews without a degree to their heart's content, but how dare someone bring up requiring TPIC time! :rolleyes:
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It has nothing to do with what you're discussing.

It has to do with the delivery.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
"Not being able to finish?" You have no idea what my situation is, yet you think you know that I "couldn't" finish? Sorry, but not the case. I was working towards the degree when AirTran hired me, and a little bit during my probationary year, but I decided during that year that if I lost my job at AirTran, I wasn't interested in starting over at another airline, so I decided not to finish the degree. My backup plan has always been the family business, which requires no degree, so continuing with the degree was a waste of money for me at the time. Now that I've got more disposable income, I've considered going back to finish it just to say I have it, but I haven't had the time yet. Maybe someday.



It was 2010, and we had roughly 15,000 applications on file, all of whom met the Part 121 PIC minimums.
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If I had skipped college and gone to 9E when I was 19, TPIC would not have been an issue because I would have started 4 years earlier at 9E, and in that time, movement was quick. I choose to get a college degree and entered the regional industry in 2007 just months before Age 65 passed and the recession hit. One could argue I sacrificed seniority, TPIC time, and QOL by going to college and delaying my entrance into the 121 field, all in order to obtain a college degree. Where you lack in that, you got a huge headstart flying at a regionl while still 19. That's why there has to be a fine balance between calling those with TPIC time versus none, and those with college degrees versus none.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
We'll see what you think about your decision when VX goes under and you're on the street lacking any PIC time. Welcome to Silver.
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Been there done that. Moving out of the regionals before getting the PIC turbine was the biggest mistake I made in my career. (And there were a lot of mistakes!)
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Been there done that. Moving out of the regionals before getting the PIC turbine was the biggest mistake I made in my career. (And there were a lot of mistakes!)
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Except the difference was in my case, I'd be furloughed within 12-18 months had I stayed. There was no TPIC to be had at that regional. It is going to go from about 2400 pilots down to 850.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Ah, I see. Everyone around here is free to trash PFTers, JetU graduates, and Pinnacle pilots who get Delta interviews without a degree to their heart's content, but how dare someone bring up requiring TPIC time! :rolleyes:
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It's not that you'd like airlines to require TPIC, it's that you're being completely obtuse about it. Seriously, I know you've been ignoring my posts, but what honestly makes you think you have a leg up with a bunch of RJ PIC time in anything other than the short-haul domestic segment? And even that's debatable. Hell, while we're at it, maybe we should require SPIFR 135 PIC time, too.
 
dasleben said:
It's not that you'd like airlines to require TPIC, it's that you're being completely obtuse about it. Seriously, I know you've been ignoring my posts
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Nope, haven't been ignoring you. Just too many posts to respond to everything. :) Sorry.

but what honestly makes you think you have a leg up with a bunch of RJ PIC time in anything other than the short-haul domestic segment? And even that's debatable. Hell, while we're at it, maybe we should require SPIFR 135 PIC time, too.
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Your operation is a little bit different, obviously. Hiring someone with prior experience in ocean crossings and international ops would obviously be preferred. But given two candidates, one who had that experience along with TPIC time, and one without, would you not agree that the guy with the command experience is the better candidate?
 
But given two candidates, one who had that experience along with TPIC time, and one without, would you not agree that the guy with the command experience is the better candidate?
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Not necessarily, what are their other qualifications? College degree? Or maybe the non-turbine PIC guy flies for Evergreen or North American and has a Boeing type with oceanic crossings. IMO, that might make him more qualified for a mainline job than a guy with just RJ PIC. Again, situations and qualifications differ for everyone.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Didn't say I didn't. Just acknowledging that leaving without the PIC turbine caused me significant problems after 9/11.
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I'd say that 9/11 caused you significant problems, in the same way that the economy exploding in 2008 caused me a few problems.

But between the two of us, I'd say we've played the cards we've been dealt pretty well. Anybody that wants to second guess what somebody does when things have hit a fan the size of Mt. Vesuvius can keep their mouths shut as far as I'm concerned.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Not necessarily, what are their other qualifications? College degree? Or maybe the non-turbine PIC guy flies for Evergreen or North American and has a Boeing type with oceanic crossings. IMO, that might make him more qualified for a mainline job than a guy with just RJ PIC. Again, situations and qualifications differ for everyone.
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Did you even read the post? It was a choice between two candidates, both who had the Evergreen/NAA style experience, but one who had TPIC experience and one who didn't.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Nope, haven't been ignoring you. Just too many posts to respond to everything. :) Sorry.

Your operation is a little bit different, obviously. Hiring someone with prior experience in ocean crossings and international ops would obviously be preferred. But given two candidates, one who had that experience along with TPIC time, and one without, would you not agree that the guy with the command experience is the better candidate?
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On paper? Maybe? I know a lot of really "special" people with loads of TPIC, and most employers consider my 135 PIC to be valuable time, as well. TPIC doesn't really mean much beyond the HR department; I know guys with thousands of hours of heavy PIC who have no business in the seat.

This industry is all about when you get hired. You even said it yourself: Seniority is forever. You go to upgrade training when there are the requisite number of people above and below you on the list.
 
jtrain609 said:
But between the two of us, I'd say we've played the cards we've been dealt pretty well.
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I'd argue that the one who has crafted a whole other profession as an attorney wins by a wide margin.

As far as people second guessing the decisions that you and I made after "career interrupted" -- get used to it. I've been Monday morning quarterbacked by copilots, captains, HR folks, my parents, my friends... You name it.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I'd argue that the one who has crafted a whole other profession as an attorney wins by a wide margin.

As far as people second guessing the decisions that you and I made after "career interrupted" -- get used to it. I've been Monday morning quarterbacked by copilots, captains, HR folks, my parents, my friends... You name it.
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You know I'm going back to work when I graduate, right? I'm happy to go back my "all regionals suck" airline.
 
dasleben said:
I know guys with thousands of hours of heavy PIC who have no business in the seat.
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Of course. And there are guys with MBAs, guys with 20,000 hours, guys with 10 type ratings, and guys with plenty of other qualifications who don't belong there, either. But we're talking in the aggregate, here. An interviewer isn't getting to sit in the cockpit for a 4-day trip with each interviewee. He has a very short period of time to determine which candidate is better suited for the position. Under those circumstances, the guy with the command experience clearly has the leg up, and rightfully so.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Of course. And there are guys with MBAs, guys with 20,000 hours, guys with 10 type ratings, and guys with plenty of other qualifications who don't belong there, either. But we're talking in the aggregate, here. An interviewer isn't getting to sit in the cockpit for a 4-day trip with each interviewee. He has a very short period of time to determine which candidate is better suited for the position. Under those circumstances, the guy with the command experience clearly has the leg up, and rightfully so.
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TPIC matters in the process only to be called in for the interview. Once you're there, it's fair game for everyone, and you are treated the same as all other candidates. I wouldn't let a lack of TPIC keep me applying to any airline, except those two that outright require it (Fdx, SWA).
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Of course. And there are guys with MBAs, guys with 20,000 hours, guys with 10 type ratings, and guys with plenty of other qualifications who don't belong there, either. But we're talking in the aggregate, here. An interviewer isn't getting to sit in the cockpit for a 4-day trip with each interviewee. He has a very short period of time to determine which candidate is better suited for the position. Under those circumstances, the guy with the command experience clearly has the leg up, and rightfully so.
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Well, I'll just say, my lack of TPIC hasn't stalled my career progression at all. In fact, at my last two interviews, I've been given a lot of respect for doing what I did at Cape Air. I'm sorry if AirTran doesn't consider that "command" experience, but those of us who've done it know better. I suppose I don't really care to work for an airline that doesn't even understand what SPIFR flying is all about, anyway (hint to the HR folks lurking around: It's autonomous command experience; no dispatch, no load planners, no support).

Oh well, back to studying for initial here at Silver... ;)
 
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