Nick
Well-Known Member
But I'll go back to BobDduck's post above: they are not all equal, not in a million years.
Go Jets Questions
- Thread starter brian434
- Start date
But I'll go back to BobDduck's post above: they are not all equal, not in a million years.
Of course they're not equal.....todays best airline is tomorrows turd, and vice versa. But you still dodged my point that one could say that the entire regional industry and the damage therein, won't be undone for years to come. So trying to blame it on one regional airline or the other, is a lesson in futility.
Nick
Well-Known Member
What I mean is, the damage done is not equal and how it was done is not equal.
If you want to cut up the corpse and see how much all the parts individually weigh, sure I agree with you [and as a lesson of things not to do in the future]. But much of that is the past.....what's going to be done about it now that will do any good? Kind of like the old adage about arguing about the deck chair arrangement while the Titanic is sinking.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Could someone please point out where all of this harm that GoJet did to the industry is? I can't see it. Sure, there was a whole hell of a lot of localized harm to the TSA pilots, but GoJet has had minimal (if any) impact on the industry at large. Delta management has been the real threat to the regional industry, continually pitting one regional management against another for RFPs, which inevitably leads to regional managements coming after their unions for more and more concessions. Pilots have a nasty habit of attributing their problems in the industry to the wrong causes. GoJet had a lot of potential to cause real harm, but in the end, they really didn't.
Look to the real problems, not the imagined ones. It's really easy to blame other pilots, because you think you can do something about it (denied jumpseats, hiring bans, lists, whatever), but it's not so easy to address the real problems. So, everyone ignores the real problems and just fights each other because it's easier. Instead, we need to find solutions to the real problems. How do we stop mainline managements from pitting one outsourced lift provider against another? That's the question. Hating one group of pilots or another is nothing but a distraction.
Look to the real problems, not the imagined ones. It's really easy to blame other pilots, because you think you can do something about it (denied jumpseats, hiring bans, lists, whatever), but it's not so easy to address the real problems. So, everyone ignores the real problems and just fights each other because it's easier. Instead, we need to find solutions to the real problems. How do we stop mainline managements from pitting one outsourced lift provider against another? That's the question. Hating one group of pilots or another is nothing but a distraction.
Also, if union pilots really consider themselves "all in this together"; then the bolded results in nothing more than collateral damage by friendly fire, too.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I think Brian needs to read this again.
brian434
Well-Known Member
I fall in the "bit desperate" group. I currently get paid to fly planes but I won't remain instrument current. I also don't log XC. Very seldom do I log multi time... in short I am a little desperate to keep the ball rolling.
The regional business is like a brothel.
You're in a brothel full of hookers (regionals) and a new John (mainline) comes in.
If everyone stuck together, the average price of a "trick" is going to be somewhat higher and all will benefit. But there's a new, younger hooker that's in the room that will do the deed for less and it drives the going rate down for everyone. The new one has low costs because she's younger, lives in an apartment with six other hookers and thinks that she's a 'straight-up baller' because $40K is a lot of money at her stage in life and in comparison to her friends at Subway, she's stacking the cheddar -- even though that $40K used to be a $100K-plus job.
Why would the John pay $X for a dirty deed when he could pay $X-Y for the same?
Eventually the new hooker gets a little older, has a home and a family to support, her costs go up... A few more wrinkles and can't figure out why no one wants to pay a premium even though her costs went up.
Then the brothel adds a new hooker and the process starts all over again.
The newest, and somewhat most egregious hooker is GoJets today. It will be someone else tomorrow and so on and so on until people clue in and get a backbone when it comes to professional aviation.
You're in a brothel full of hookers (regionals) and a new John (mainline) comes in.
If everyone stuck together, the average price of a "trick" is going to be somewhat higher and all will benefit. But there's a new, younger hooker that's in the room that will do the deed for less and it drives the going rate down for everyone. The new one has low costs because she's younger, lives in an apartment with six other hookers and thinks that she's a 'straight-up baller' because $40K is a lot of money at her stage in life and in comparison to her friends at Subway, she's stacking the cheddar -- even though that $40K used to be a $100K-plus job.
Why would the John pay $X for a dirty deed when he could pay $X-Y for the same?
Eventually the new hooker gets a little older, has a home and a family to support, her costs go up... A few more wrinkles and can't figure out why no one wants to pay a premium even though her costs went up.
Then the brothel adds a new hooker and the process starts all over again.
The newest, and somewhat most egregious hooker is GoJets today. It will be someone else tomorrow and so on and so on until people clue in and get a backbone when it comes to professional aviation.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Well, that's not quite how it really happens. A more apt analogy would be a Jon (UAL) coming into a room full of hookers (regionals) and telling them that none of them are going to get anymore business unless one of them offers a cut rate to do it. So, one of the hookers decides that she can "get in on the ground floor" of new business by offering a discount rate to this cheap ass Jon. She does, and then the next Jon (DAL) comes in and tells the other hookers that unless they offer a rate even cheaper than the first hooker, then she's going to get their business too. So, another hooker realizes that she's going to starve if she doesn't get some business soon, so she offers a rate that discounts even lower than the first hooker, and the process repeats itself over and over again.
It's not the regional carriers that are creating this problem. It's the mainline managements that pit them against each other.
It's not the regional carriers that are creating this problem. It's the mainline managements that pit them against each other.
WacoFan
Bigly
Wait! This is sexual innuendo!
WacoFan
Bigly
Neither was the one he just slapped me for. Elegance. Ok.
pete2800
'Member?
How about a mixture of both!
There were once a group of prostitutes working in a brothel. They were all paid very well. One day, the head-mistress has a meeting with all of them, and suggests that they allow the hiring of some new hookers, paid at half the rate... as long as they only provided service to the ugly 'Jons' so that they 'legacy' hookers wouldn't have to, and would in fact get a pay raise! The more established hookers agreed to this, provided that the business for the new-hires didn't exceed 25% of the total business. There was much rejoicing over the new pay raise, and some new hookers were easy to find as there were plenty of them willing to 'pay their dues.' Eventually, the brothel began struggling with financial problems, and re-negotiated the agreement to keep the current pay, but allow 40% of the business to go to the new hires. The older hookers were happy that their pay was steady even in a time of economic hardship. The young new-hires began to become bitter as they were unable to achieve the pay of the senior prostitutes, who had yet again re-negotiated for 51% of the business to go to the contract hookers. The young hookers are staring at 15+ years of working for very little money, and several of the older hookers have now been 'laid' off (pun, lol) due to the fact that their Jons have been out-sourced to young hookers who are working for half pay. The brothel is willing to hire them back, but only at new hire pay. They're slowly seeing how bad of an idea it was to allow some of their work to go to the young hookers, even if the legacy prostitutes did get a bit of a pay raise at the time. Everyone is pissed.
Then one of the young hookers got pregnant, and had a daughter who grew up to be a hooker who would work for less than her mom... and Go-Jets was born.
Scope is everything.
Tommay85
Well-Known Member
As an outside observer, the hooker analogy works great. You're all hookers! 
Really though, all I see is arguments regarding MINOR semantics. I don't see ANY regional as being better than the other. At the end of the day, the pay still sucks across the board and the volatility is ridiculous.
Really though, all I see is arguments regarding MINOR semantics. I don't see ANY regional as being better than the other. At the end of the day, the pay still sucks across the board and the volatility is ridiculous.
