Non-Rev Crew Member In The Cockpit

I have a lot of time in the jump seat of a 73. I was paying attention and taking notes, waiting for my chance to show I had the right stuff, but was never given the chance.
 
FlyingScot said:
I have a lot of time in the jump seat of a 73. I was paying attention and taking notes, waiting for my chance to show I had the right stuff, but was never given the chance.
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"Keep your knee away from the pedestal, otherwise, you'll wind up bruised."
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yes, because 1,500 hour CFIs and freight dogs never do poorly in the sim. :rolleyes:
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This individual has quiet a colorful history, actually. Bought his way through Goofstream, washed out at XJT, got hired at CJC, then went to Shuttle America and washed out.. again. A day of flying with him drove at least one CA I know to near spontaneous violence.

ATN_Pilot said:
I think there is always value to having someone else up front. Even if the only thing you're asking them to do is read the checklist, at least it's something that is taken off of your plate. And frankly, if the manual recommends it, you ignore the manual, and an incident occurs during landing or approach, then you'll have some explaining to do to both the company and the feds.
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Good point. Granted, in an emergency, the rulebook goes out the window, right? Judgement of the PIC.

MQAAord said:
(In response to Charlie)
As a PPL-certificated pilot, and F/A with 7 years of experience as a flight attendant in commercial a/c ranging from Saabs to 767s I would probably feel a whole lot more "at ease" in a airliner cockpit, and may feel less overwhelmed than a pax with a PPL rating. Could I "fly" the airliner? No, not terribly well... that's for sure! But I know how to work the radios in an airliner (yes, I really do :) ) and wouldn't feel the same intimidation that a pax pilot MIGHT feel (not saying every pax pilot would feel intimidated or overwhelmed, but it's my humble opinion that an airline F/A would probably feel LESS intimated.) Certainly each individual circumstance would have to be evaluated on it's own, and in no way am I trying to make a blanket statement of "ALWAYS use a pilot-qualified F/A if available!!!", not at all, I just think that someone like that could be a possible asset. That's all.

I think there was an incident not too long ago where a UAL CMEL rated F/A "assisted" in the cockpit... will have to see if I can find a link.
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Excellent point. I've know a few FAs that I'd rather have on the flightdeck than the CAs in a few cases. On the other hand, there have been FAs that I didn't want leaning in the flight deck doorway at the gate. As always, I guess your mileage may vary.

And as ATN said.. company procedure may vary.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Oh, and to add on, my question is, how come it's cool for "Capt. Eddie Currents" to put that on his business cards, but "First Officer Cuppa Folgers" looks ridiculous? :)
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I knew a pilot in the Army that had a nametag for his flightsuit made that said "CAPT Harry Paratestes."

He forgot his real one one day and wore that one instead. I was there when the Major noticed. Hilarity ensued. :D
 
I like Cav's idea about how to involve your fellow crewmembers and reduce workload. Personally, I'd ask the lead to talk to the company on the SATCOM, and work from there. Having a pilot-rated FA handle radios might work, but unless he/she is furloughed from a professional pilot position elsewhere, it would just be easier to handle them yourself. That's no offense to the FA, but the whole "Okay, now tell them..." routine gets really old really fast.

Like I said, if you guys can get some single-pilot time in the sim, it's a good exercise.
 
I could swear I read some stupid security "thesis" or such, that detailed the thought of incapactitating a crew member, and using that time to "gain" access to the flight deck. Honestly, I'm only taking a company pilot. I'm more worried about gettng the plane on the ground, and getting the crew member medical attention, than sorting through who's right for the flight deck. It's just not worth the added distraction to me.

If there is a guy in the jumpseat, then he's already at a radio station, and, I'm going to ask him to take care of the other crew member, and assist getting him out of the flight deck if need be.

If it's a full flight, and there are no seats in the back, I'm going to ask the FA's to get the crew member into the aft jump seat, and then have one of them sit up front in the jump seat. If we are completely full (74+1) then the guy in the jump is taking the crew members seat, FA to the cockpit jump, and remaining cabin att. is taking the front FA jump seat, but, i'm still not inviting Joe hero to come prove his worth, it devites from SOP more than is needed to safely deal with the situation.
 
Firebird2XC said:
This individual has quiet a colorful history, actually. Bought his way through Goofstream, washed out at XJT, got hired at CJC, then went to Shuttle America and washed out.. again. A day of flying with him drove at least one CA I know to near spontaneous violence.
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Sounds like a real loser. But the fact that he came from GIA really has nothing to do with it. Bad pilots come from all over.

Good point. Granted, in an emergency, the rulebook goes out the window, right? Judgement of the PIC.
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Eh, somewhat, but not really. Even after you declare an emergency, you are still accountable for your actions. Both the FAA and the company will want answers. If the company has problems with how you handle things, then you can be subject to discipline. If the FAA thinks you handled things in a "careless and reckless" manner, then they can take certificate action. Declaring an emergency certainly gives you added leeway, but it isn't a license to kill, so to speak. Unless I could come up with really good reasons to ignore the manual, then I would follow it.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
. Honestly, I'm only taking a company pilot. I'm more worried about gettng the plane on the ground, and getting the crew member medical attention, than sorting through who's right for the flight deck. It's just not worth the added distraction to me.

.
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Your plan you explained further on seemed more a distraction than taking the time to determine if there is someone in back who might be qualed who is not from your company only. Shouldn't be that much to figure out. Would be kind of working against yourself to raise your workload to something you're not used to, only to land and find out there were 5 qualed RJ guys in the back in civilian clothes. Or worse, you get in over your head or ball up the jet, and take what could've been good crewmembers with you.

Just some considerations to think about. Your plan isn't wrong, it's simply technique. But it automatically omits what could potentially be useful help in back from someone qualed (or better) who might not be readily identifiable.
 
MikeD said:
Your plan you explained further on seemed more a distraction than taking the time to determine if there is someone in back who might be qualed who is not from your company only. Shouldn't be that much to figure out. Would be kind of working against yourself to raise your workload to something you're not used to, only to land and find out there were 5 qualed RJ guys in the back in civilian clothes. Or worse, you get in over your head or ball up the jet, and take what could've been good crewmembers with you.

Just some considerations to think about. Your plan isn't wrong, it's simply technique. But it automatically omits what could potentially be useful help in back from someone qualed (or better) who might not be readily identifiable.
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the part about switching seats is only of I "have" to get the other guy out.... Normally I'm getting on the ground ASAP. We practice and train in the sim with an incapacitated crew member, and as an lca, I'm quite used to the workload of doing both jobs. In the NE, it's likely I can have the plane safely on the ground in 10 minutes.. Which is prob going to be priority #1. Inflight medical aid options are limited at best for us.
 
dasleben said:
I like Cav's idea about how to involve your fellow crewmembers and reduce workload. Personally, I'd ask the lead to talk to the company on the SATCOM, and work from there. Having a pilot-rated FA handle radios might work, but unless he/she is furloughed from a professional pilot position elsewhere, it would just be easier to handle them yourself. That's no offense to the FA, but the whole "Okay, now tell them..." routine gets really old really fast.

Like I said, if you guys can get some single-pilot time in the sim, it's a good exercise.
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My thought on the process is this... At my airline typically the FO will fly the airplane and talk to ATC while the CA runs emergency checklists. So in the case of an incapacitated CA if I were to assume the flying and ATC radio work I would remain within a set of duties that would ensure I wouldn't become overly task saturated. Where I would need help would be with all the other stuff that needs to get done in an emergency....talking to company, medical personnel, other flight attendants, passengers, etc. A GA pilot really serves no significant value to me here. I'm going to have to spend too much time instructing them on what to say and how to go about doing it. That's why IMO if another airline pilot isn't available a FA is the best available choice....or a nonreving dispatcher or mechanic. As is the case with most emergencies, the flying part is easy, it's the coordination of all the pieces that becomes complicated.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
the part about switching seats is only of I "have" to get the other guy out.... Normally I'm getting on the ground ASAP. We practice and train in the sim with an incapacitated crew member, and as an lca, I'm quite used to the workload of doing both jobs. In the NE, it's likely I can have the plane safely on the ground in 10 minutes.. Which is prob going to be priority #1. Inflight medical aid options are limited at best for us.
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I would love to be a seat fill in a sim and play incapacitated captain all day!
 
There are checklist of priority to follow when determining who might be available during a medical emergency
1. Any Dr's onboard?
2. Any Nurses?
3. Any EMS?
4. Vets?
5. Chiropractor
6. Ever seen ER?
7. How bout House?
8. Private Practice
9. PLayed "Operation" as a kid?

Similarly in this situation you would go...
1. Company pilot
2 Airline Pilot
3. Private Pilot
4. Seen "Airplane"
5. Top Gun
6 "Wings"
7. Air Wolf

ETC ETC ....
 
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