Non-Rev Crew Member In The Cockpit

Oh, and to add on, my question is, how come it's cool for "Capt. Eddie Currents" to put that on his business cards, but "First Officer Cuppa Folgers" looks ridiculous? :)
 
MQAAord said:
How about a flight attendant with a pilot certificate? (Yes, there are a few out there!) Would you consider that F/A an asset to the flight deck in such circumstances or insist s/he maintain their role as F/A?
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Yes, especially at they're already crew members. The question is- are the remaining FAs enough to evacuate if we have to? I'd consider depleting the ranks of the 'passenger wranglers' a last resort given the hazard to FAs and PAX alike. If we were light, well, why not?
 
MQAAord said:
How about a flight attendant with a pilot certificate? (Yes, there are a few out there!) Would you consider that F/A an asset to the flight deck in such circumstances or insist s/he maintain their role as F/A?
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I'm pretty sure our manual actually suggests using the FAs to assist on the flight deck in this kind of situation if a pilot isn't available.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I'm pretty sure our manual actually suggests using the FAs to assist on the flight deck in this kind of situation if a pilot isn't available.
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I think ours might too. But why? A plane that augers in because the flight deck crew got overloaded definitely equals casualties. But the 'suggestion' begs the question- rated or not- how much use is someone with likely 0 hours in type going to be in this situation?

So having the FA in the flight deck might be your (or my) company's procedure.. but at this point does their having a rating matter much?
 
I found (and I'm sure others will back me up here) that flying with a low-time SIC who was unfamiliar with the airplane was much more difficult than flying single-pilot. In fact, after a rotation with a 250-300 hour guy, I was often very happy to go back to single-pilot. It was simply easier; no explaining how things work, no telling him/her what to say on the radio, etc. It was simply more efficient for me to do it, and actually allowed me to concentrate more on the big picture. Flying with an experienced professional, as others have said, is an entirely different situation.

Next time any of you guys are in the sim, do some single-pilot work. I did a single-pilot V1 cut on one of my last sim sessions (this was after the jeopardy stuff was done :)), and it really wasn't very difficult. Flying a normal approach and landing in a two-person jet, if necessary, should be a non-event for a professional pilot.

Of course, with all the flying I do with an augmented crew, myself and the other "copilot" will just roshambo for the tiller seat should the old man keel over. ;)
 
I think in that situation, about the only non-company non-757/767 pilot I would let into the cockpit would be someone with the clear instructions of "if that door opens, eliminate the threat and I will continue to land the aircraft".
 
Firebird2XC said:
I think ours might too. But why? A plane that augers in because the flight deck crew got overloaded definitely equals casualties. But the 'suggestion' begs the question- rated or not- how much use is someone with likely 0 hours in type going to be in this situation?

So having the FA in the flight deck might be your (or my) company's procedure.. but at this point does their having a rating matter much?
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I think there is always value to having someone else up front. Even if the only thing you're asking them to do is read the checklist, at least it's something that is taken off of your plate. And frankly, if the manual recommends it, you ignore the manual, and an incident occurs during landing or approach, then you'll have some explaining to do to both the company and the feds.
 
(In response to Charlie)

As a PPL-certificated pilot, and F/A with 7 years of experience as a flight attendant in commercial a/c ranging from Saabs to 767s I would probably feel a whole lot more "at ease" in a airliner cockpit, and may feel less overwhelmed than a pax with a PPL rating. Could I "fly" the airliner? No, not terribly well... that's for sure! But I know how to work the radios in an airliner (yes, I really do :) ) and wouldn't feel the same intimidation that a pax pilot MIGHT feel (not saying every pax pilot would feel intimidated or overwhelmed, but it's my humble opinion that an airline F/A would probably feel LESS intimated.) Certainly each individual circumstance would have to be evaluated on it's own, and in no way am I trying to make a blanket statement of "ALWAYS use a pilot-qualified F/A if available!!!", not at all, I just think that someone like that could be a possible asset. That's all.

I think there was an incident not too long ago where a UAL CMEL rated F/A "assisted" in the cockpit... will have to see if I can find a link.
 
dasleben said:
I found (and I'm sure others will back me up here) that flying with a low-time SIC who was unfamiliar with the airplane was much more difficult than flying single-pilot.
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I never found that to be the case at all, and I flew with a ton of low-time FOs at Pinnacle. One guy only had 230 hours or so (he was hired with 191 hours total time from a part 141 program). Most of them did great. There was the occasional issue, but never to the point where I wished I was single pilot instead.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I never found that to be the case at all, and I flew with a ton of low-time FOs at Pinnacle. One guy only had 230 hours or so (he was hired with 191 hours total time from a part 141 program). Most of them did great. There was the occasional issue, but never to the point where I wished I was single pilot instead.
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Well, Pinnacle must have hired the very best and brightest then. :)

I should add that someone who's been through an intensive sim program is much different than someone who's been through what equates to a right-seat checkout before being thrown on the line. Even worse situation with someone who's never set foot in your cockpit, much less seen a Boeing checklist/QRH.
 
dasleben said:
Well, Pinnacle must have hired the very best and brightest then. :)

I should add that someone who's been through an intensive sim program is much different than someone who's been through what equates to a right-seat checkout before being thrown on the line. Even worse situation with someone who's never set foot in the cockpit!
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So someone being hired low-time with the famed "250 hours" wouldn't have been able to save the day? I only ask, because we do have those here who started out that way, and it'd be interesting to know what they think had they placed themselves in the same situation, were it back then when they were essentially wet-commercial FOs
 
MikeD said:
So someone being hired low-time with the famed "250 hours" wouldn't have been able to save the day? I only ask, because we do have those here who started out that way, and it'd be interesting to know what they think had they placed themselves in the same situation, were it back then when they were essentially wet-commercial FOs
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I just want to make it clear that I'm putting this in the context of a low-timer who's completely untrained on the aircraft, not a 250 hour pilot who's been trained to some extent. :)
 
dasleben said:
I just want to make it clear that I'm putting this in the context of a low-timer who's completely untrained on the aircraft, not a 250 hour pilot who's been trained to some extent. :)
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Oh, ok. No problem. I'd have known that, probably, if I'd read a few posts higher! :D
 
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