Flight Following

J

Jones14

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, just had a few questions about flight following. I've been going on lots of long VFR cross-country trips lately building CPL time. I personally enjoy being on center/approach freq's much more than listening to 4 million students in the pattern at Sky King on 122.8 my entire trip. If you've ever flown near Indy you should know what I mean, lol. God, someone put them on 123.0 already.

The benefits of FF are obvious, but I just wonder sometimes if controllers find it annoying for some dude buzzing around VFR to be clogging up the freq just for an extra set of eyes. I mainly feel this way when on Center or larger Class C or B approach freq's. That's a pretty vague question, I'm sure at busy times of the day they would be annoyed and others not so much... but generally, how do you feel when the guy in a 150 calls up stumbling through the request? Because some people put zero though into their call up before keying the mic... I'm cringing through the entire 30 seconds.

Some other thoughts I've had along the way. If my day of VFR flying takes me to 3 different airports, where I will just touch and go, can I ask for FF for each leg in my initial call to Center? Like so...

Me: KC Center, Cessna 123AB...
You: 123AB, KC Center...
Me: 123AB is a Cessna 172, 5,500 over so-and-so VOR, request FF to Terre Haute, IN - Evansville, IN, and Centralia, IL.

Again, I don't want to put too much on their plate... but at the same time they can always say no, or tell me to squawk 1200. The reason this question came about is because on that very same route I was on with KC Center until handed off to Hullman Appch. Appch asked how I would terminate and I replied "Touch and Go, South departure direct Evansville." Then I was given to tower. I was hoping they would know I still wanted a FF down to Evansville, but after the T-N-G and being given to Departure they told me to squawk VFR, freq change approved, good day.

So I hum along for a minute, still wanting my FF and decide to just go ahead and make the awkward call back to Departure and request it. They seemed annoyed... but I was awarded my coveted FF and not far away was given to Evansville Appch. Should I have asked for the FF to EVV when asked how I would terminate? Or am I really just making a big deal out of nothing, haha.

Would requesting all 3 airports initially have helped me, and ultimately everyone, by less freq congestion (having to request each leg)? Or is that more pushing the envelope of filing IFR in VFR conditions? I feel like there may be some unwritten rules that I haven't figured out yet. As a controller, how do you view FF in general, and how would you prefer us to request it?

I did have one last quick question. It came about when I was traveling through a busy bit of Class E that is associated with a college flight department. They are on a Class D field, but have 2 or 3 practice areas that surround the airport. It gets really hectic trying to pick your way through about 10 students practicing maneuvers at all types of different altitudes. Thankfully I was on a FF and the poor gal gave me about 5 traffic advisories through that area.

So, the question... My home field is situated very close to a fairly popular VOR. Our practice areas lie North and South of said VOR. Would it be safe to ask for a FF from Center when out practicing maneuvers with a student? Or would monitoring the freq be good enough for that situation?
 
Providing flight following is almost never annoying. I really like providing it because it means I know what altitude you're at and what you're doing, be it maneuvers, XC flight etc and can plan accordingly. Even if just for maneuvers in the practice area I can advise you of traffic and give you an altitude that keeps you away from the other a/c without impacting what you're trying to accomplish. From my perspective as a class B approach controller, if I get really busy, I'll vector you out of the bravo and have you resume own nav. I'm still a pair of eyes, but I'm not sweating VFR class B separation. My major peeves are the guys who stumble through a lengthy call up when I'm obviously slammed (please listen to a frequency for a little bit before a callup) and guys who when told standby assume the next transmission is for them.

You can absolutely go VFR to multiple airports. That should never be a problem. If its a full stop, fuel up kind of thing its normally easier for us to give you a new code on the way out since the code will drop off, we will have to suspend it and remember we suspended it when you call up. If its a touch and go or quick stop and go when you take off again it'll reacquire your tag as they stay stored for a few minutes after the code disappears. Just let the controller know on the callup it'll be multiple T&G's and you should be fine.

I think you probably should have specified you want flight following to EVV when asked. Most controllers will take the initiative and ask if you want FF, but some people are too lazy. As to how to request, most controllers I know prefer opening with "Approach N12345 VFR request" and waiting for the reply. It allows me to turn my attention to you, mentally switch to in-taking information as well as replying back "N12345 go ahead" allows you to hear me say your call sign to ensure I have it correct before I start typing stuff in that is incorrect.

As to flight following in the practice area, I'd ask for it as opposed to monitoring the freq. Other than the above listed reasons of me knowing your intentions I can also tell you what the other 1200 codes are doing, not just what the ones I'm talking to are doing. We have a pretty popular VOR in my airspace for practicing DME arcs and holds and sometimes you'll see 7 or 8 planes in the immediate vicinity within 1000 feet of each other all spinning around the thing. I know big sky theory and such, but it can still be pretty scary to watch.
 
Just so you know what the process is, when you call a center for advisories, we first type your callsign into the computer and get a beacon code. Then we type in your type aircraft and destination to fill out the VFR flight plan. Then we start a radar track on your target. Any route information is best saved for when the controller asks for it as the VFR flight plan message to the computer can only accept type aircraft and destination.

I know I had no idea how it worked when I was solely a pilot flying around out there. Happy flying.
 
I fly VFR and I fly a lot. Usually from one to three hours legs I like to stay higher. Often ATC asks what on course heading will be. Curious what this info is used for the destination is already given.
 
Ok, very good info guys. Definitely helps to know the steps in the process. Something I kept forgetting to include in my call was type aircraft. I didn't really understand the importance wheather I was a C150, C172, Cherokee, etc. putting along at 80 knots, but it's a required field for getting me in the system.

Your replies kind of spurred another thought too. Would it be helpful if I were to file VFR before I leave for my 3 and 4 leg trips? Like you said all you can really do for me initially is type aircraft, altitude, 1 destination, and code. With the VFR plan on file you would at least know I do plan to visit several fields, and I could include in the comment section that each destination will terminate with a touch and go. This might be overboard, if I remember correctly filing VFR is more of a safety net for treacherous trips through mountains or over water, etc.

And again, for some of us (or maybe just me) it's all a big magical process. I file my plan, go fly, and when I call Center they know who I am and what I'm doing. VFR flight plans may be a bit different though, since you aren't necessarily required to interact with me.

And one more... :) This may fall under the "unwritten rules of FF." I was somewhere down in Memphis Center-ville one day, I believe I was going into Paducah, KY. They have no approach freq or anything, and I'm coming up on the airport rather quickly. Close enough that if I were not on FF, I would have already called tower. So thinking maybe Center had lost track of me I requested freq change, and came back and said "Well, do you have the airport in sight?" I said yes, and he approved. Is that the common way of letting them know you're ready to switch over?

And by the way, after asking all these questions I happened to Google something that popped into my mind. Found a really good FAQ on the AOPA website that basically answers everything I've asked. But, for the sake of conversation I guess I will still post my questions. Link below for anyone else who has asked these questions.

AOPA: VFR Questions
 
I did have one last quick question. It came about when I was traveling through a busy bit of Class E that is associated with a college flight department. They are on a Class D field said:
lol must be carbondale
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genot said:
We have a pretty popular VOR in my airspace for practicing DME arcs and holds and sometimes you'll see 7 or 8 planes in the immediate vicinity within 1000 feet of each other all spinning around the thing. I know big sky theory and such, but it can still be pretty scary to watch.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the DTW satellite approach controller has a near stroke every time our decent size fleet takes to the SVM VOR and related practice area (about 10 NW of DTW)... it got pretty hairy out there this weekend. :ooh::eek2:
 

Haha, yep. I fly down to Cape quite a bit on the V313. What frequency are you guys on when you're out in the practice areas? Usually I am on a FF when I pass through, and I have even told tower that I will be passing South to North over Murphysboro at 4,500, hoping that most of the guys out there are still on Tower.

You know, now you got me thinking. I might stop at MDH today and run into town for some Quatro's!!
 
Controllers do not know you have a VFR flight plan on file and do not have access to VFR flight plans, only FSS dose so putting what you want in the remarks section will not help.
 
Fencer said:
I fly VFR and I fly a lot. Usually from one to three hours legs I like to stay higher. Often ATC asks what on course heading will be. Curious what this info is used for the destination is already given.
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When it is a 2/3 hr flight by air to East Timbuktu County Tennessee airport we probably don't know what you'll be doing other then basic generalizations (Tennessee is South/Southwest) A heading lets us know if you'll be flying through a departure and/or arrival corridor (and where you will be doing so) and who to hand you off to.
 
boondr said:
When it is a 2/3 hr flight by air to East Timbuktu County Tennessee airport we probably don't know what you'll be doing other then basic generalizations (Tennessee is South/Southwest) A heading lets us know if you'll be flying through a departure and/or arrival corridor (and where you will be doing so) and who to hand you off to.
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Understood now. Makes perfect sense even for shorter legs, couple times I asked to leave Hudson River Corridor to the East and EWR never accommodated after learning the heading.
 
boondr said:
When it is a 2/3 hr flight by air to East Timbuktu County Tennessee airport we probably don't know what you'll be doing other then basic generalizations (Tennessee is South/Southwest) A heading lets us know if you'll be flying through a departure and/or arrival corridor (and where you will be doing so) and who to hand you off to.
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Do you TRACON guys not have a route line display?
 
Jones14 said:
And one more... :) This may fall under the "unwritten rules of FF." I was somewhere down in Memphis Center-ville one day, I believe I was going into Paducah, KY. They have no approach freq or anything, and I'm coming up on the airport rather quickly. Close enough that if I were not on FF, I would have already called tower. So thinking maybe Center had lost track of me I requested freq change, and came back and said "Well, do you have the airport in sight?" I said yes, and he approved. Is that the common way of letting them know you're ready to switch over?

And by the way, after asking all these questions I happened to Google something that popped into my mind. Found a really good FAQ on the AOPA website that basically answers everything I've asked. But, for the sake of conversation I guess I will still post my questions. Link below for anyone else who has asked these questions.

AOPA: VFR Questions
Click to expand...

When flying IFR I have realized you should not be afraid to speak up if you have doubts. It lets you know there is no confusion and you are on the same page with the controller. Same applies to VFR.

As far as switching over, your final approach controller will usually say "report field in sight." If they do not, just report field in sight and go from there. I have reported field in sight if they were busy and they were not reporting any traffic to me.

Also, I have had controllers keep me on their frequency even though I should have been switched over to another (routes and freqs I am familiar with) and just tell me to report field in sight instead of switching me over. I would assume they coordinate that with the other approach controller.
 
Jones14 said:
Ok, very good info guys. Definitely helps to know the steps in the process. Something I kept forgetting to include in my call was type aircraft. I didn't really understand the importance wheather I was a C150, C172, Cherokee, etc. putting along at 80 knots, but it's a required field for getting me in the system.

Your replies kind of spurred another thought too. Would it be helpful if I were to file VFR before I leave for my 3 and 4 leg trips? Like you said all you can really do for me initially is type aircraft, altitude, 1 destination, and code. With the VFR plan on file you would at least know I do plan to visit several fields, and I could include in the comment section that each destination will terminate with a touch and go. This might be overboard, if I remember correctly filing VFR is more of a safety net for treacherous trips through mountains or over water, etc.

And again, for some of us (or maybe just me) it's all a big magical process. I file my plan, go fly, and when I call Center they know who I am and what I'm doing. VFR flight plans may be a bit different though, since you aren't necessarily required to interact with me.

And one more... :) This may fall under the "unwritten rules of FF." I was somewhere down in Memphis Center-ville one day, I believe I was going into Paducah, KY. They have no approach freq or anything, and I'm coming up on the airport rather quickly. Close enough that if I were not on FF, I would have already called tower. So thinking maybe Center had lost track of me I requested freq change, and came back and said "Well, do you have the airport in sight?" I said yes, and he approved. Is that the common way of letting them know you're ready to switch over?

And by the way, after asking all these questions I happened to Google something that popped into my mind. Found a really good FAQ on the AOPA website that basically answers everything I've asked. But, for the sake of conversation I guess I will still post my questions. Link below for anyone else who has asked these questions.

AOPA: VFR Questions
Click to expand...

As far as type aircraft as it pertains to FF it helps with traffic calls. It also helps let me provide a better service all around. I obviously don't know your airspeed and lacking knowledge of your type if I base something on assumptions on ground speed. Granted 80% of the time I know you're probably a single piston. However say if you're a C206, the ground speed between that and a C172 can be within the "margin of error" of ,well, it could be either in these winds. If I know you're a 206 I'll know you'll want to descend sooner and if you're a 172 I know you can slam it down much faster if the situation requires a slam dunk. As mentioned we don't get FSS flight plans, but you can always ask the tower if you're departing from one to put one in the NAS. Some towers/controllers may be too lazy or not know how to put one in, but some should do that for you without complaint.

As far as the switching freqs thing its all just controller technique. Some controllers forget there is a difference between an IFR having the field in sight for a visual approach and a VFR. Many controllers will ask if a pilot sees the field at uncontrolled fields if the pilot isn't recognized as a local. Honestly, in your situation it may have been an "I was on the landline." moment. In other words, crap I thought I already shipped him to tower.
 
Sounds like a good plan! We use 123.3 out in the practice areas and make quite a bit of position reports.
 
boondr said:
Don't even know what that is.
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Its the reason you get a tons of revisions over and over on the same inbound. I think basically they can plug a route into their scope side computer and it'll draw a line from present position along that route. It might even show potential conflicts too. I'm not too sure. All I know is its more advanced than the Commodore 64 Terminal has.
 
genot said:
Its the reason you get a tons of revisions over and over on the same inbound. I think basically they can plug a route into their scope side computer and it'll draw a line from present position along that route. It might even show potential conflicts too. I'm not too sure. All I know is its more advanced than the Commodore 64 Terminal has.
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Basically this. The route line itself doesn't show conflicts, but it updates the computer, which will show conflicts. Pretty handy for figuring out if someone will require a point-out, too.
 
Bernoulli Fan said:
Basically this. The route line itself doesn't show conflicts, but it updates the computer, which will show conflicts. Pretty handy for figuring out if someone will require a point-out, too.
Click to expand...
All we can do is a 2.5-10 mile projection or "baseball bat" and that thing swings around like a windchime in a tornado most of the time when it is put on a single engine bug smasher. I exaggerate a bit, but it moves 15-30 degrees a sweep on the slow movers. hard to get a good gauge of overall course without watching for awhile.
 
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