FlySooner9
Well-Known Member
we were also told by Jim Wrinkly that the MX cost on the ATR's takes away the money it saves on fuel to the point its almost even with the EMJ's
Warn Notice Issued To Eagle Dfw Atr Pilots
- Thread starter CFIscare
- Start date
Shelli Franks
Well-Known Member
The DFW ATR pilots are NOT the only pilots to receive this letter - I posted it in the AMR bankruptcy forum days ago from my husband's e-mail (he flies the EMB).
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
The WARN notice is specific to them because a large number of Executive Airlines employees at one site will be effected.
HOWEVER, the bargaining agreement between ALPA and AMR Eagle Holding Company requires that pilots be furloughed in reverse order of system seniority. And it is one list, so ALPA gave everyone a copy as a "Hey! Heads up!"
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Keep in mind, that WARN notices are sent when layoffs may happen to X% of the total company workforce, otherwise the company has to pay certain amount of weeks pay after laying employees off if it is considered a mass layoff. They may be sending the notice to everyone due to their plans to lay off all the non-union employees at Executive Airlines to avoid having to pay them 2 weeks pay.
I wouldn't be too concerned, they were saying the same thing at Mesa when they were parking the ERJs. If Mesa didn't have the balls to furlough out of seniority order then Eagle definitely won't, ALPA would have their lunch. There are people in Herndon just sitting there, waiting and rubbing their hands together, because this would be an easy and expensive win, even in BK.
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I wouldn't be too concerned, they were saying the same thing at Mesa when they were parking the ERJs. If Mesa didn't have the balls to furlough out of seniority order then Eagle definitely won't, ALPA would have their lunch. There are people in Herndon just sitting there, waiting and rubbing their hands together, because this would be an easy and expensive win, even in BK.
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RPM
Well-Known Member
SPECIAL EAGLEWIRE FOR DEC 20, 2011
Published Especially for the Employees of American Eagle
* * * * PLEASE POST ON ALL BULLETIN BOARDS * * * *
December 20, 2011
Eagle and Executive Employees,
Last week, I provided an update on the ongoing review of contracts and aircraft leases and the negotiations with our vendors and lessors that are a part of the restructuring process – all designed to help lower our costs to competitive levels. Specifically, we advised that a decision would be forthcoming about the future of the ATR fleet. These aircraft are nearing the end of their lease terms and AMR has been carefully evaluating whether to accelerate their return.
This week, the decision was made to do just that – beginning with the ATRs that are based in DFW. We plan to retire the first six ATR aircraft, which are no longer in active service, at the beginning of the year. Effective Jan. 31, we will remove the 15 ATRs currently operating out of the DFW hub from service and return them shortly thereafter to the lessor. Eagle will continue to serve the 14 ATR markets from DFW with a combination of EMB-140 and EMB-145 jets. We anticipate that the remaining ATR aircraft will continue to operate in Miami and San Juan for the near term.
In order to meet this very tight deadline, we have identified all of the necessary schedule changes and will submit them today, to appear in SABRE this coming weekend. In order to replace the ATR flying with regional jets, we will reduce frequency in a few select markets and discontinue seasonal service from DFW to Augusta, Ga., as well as service from Chicago to Tri-Cities, Tenn. (Eagle does not have ground employees in either city.) Eagle will continue to serve Savannah, Ga., and American will maintain service to Fort Myers, Fla., from DFW, but Eagle will cease service to both cities from Miami. In addition, three previously-announced cancellations planned for Feb. 9 (Los Angeles-Boise, Chicago-Calgary and DFW-Fayetteville, N.C.) will be advanced to Jan. 31. We plan to notify the affected airports, customers and community leaders shortly.
Clearly, the timing of this announcement so close to the holidays is unfortunate – but we are committed to sharing information with you as soon as we can. We regret the impact on our people – not only the DFW-based Executive Airlines employees and those who work in support of that operation who are directly affected, but the other employees who may also be impacted through displacement.
Since we advised everyone at Eagle and Executive of a possible reduction in my letter last week, we have been working to define the exact number of employees who might ultimately be affected.
We will continue to update you and will provide employees who are impacted by the changes with all of their options in early January.
The restructuring process to shape American Eagle into a more competitive and successful company is both complex and challenging. But we are committed to working swiftly and making the necessary changes toward providing a brighter future for all of us.
Thank you again for all you do, despite the obvious distractions, to run a safe and reliable airline for our customers.
Dan Garton
Published Especially for the Employees of American Eagle
* * * * PLEASE POST ON ALL BULLETIN BOARDS * * * *
December 20, 2011
Eagle and Executive Employees,
Last week, I provided an update on the ongoing review of contracts and aircraft leases and the negotiations with our vendors and lessors that are a part of the restructuring process – all designed to help lower our costs to competitive levels. Specifically, we advised that a decision would be forthcoming about the future of the ATR fleet. These aircraft are nearing the end of their lease terms and AMR has been carefully evaluating whether to accelerate their return.
This week, the decision was made to do just that – beginning with the ATRs that are based in DFW. We plan to retire the first six ATR aircraft, which are no longer in active service, at the beginning of the year. Effective Jan. 31, we will remove the 15 ATRs currently operating out of the DFW hub from service and return them shortly thereafter to the lessor. Eagle will continue to serve the 14 ATR markets from DFW with a combination of EMB-140 and EMB-145 jets. We anticipate that the remaining ATR aircraft will continue to operate in Miami and San Juan for the near term.
In order to meet this very tight deadline, we have identified all of the necessary schedule changes and will submit them today, to appear in SABRE this coming weekend. In order to replace the ATR flying with regional jets, we will reduce frequency in a few select markets and discontinue seasonal service from DFW to Augusta, Ga., as well as service from Chicago to Tri-Cities, Tenn. (Eagle does not have ground employees in either city.) Eagle will continue to serve Savannah, Ga., and American will maintain service to Fort Myers, Fla., from DFW, but Eagle will cease service to both cities from Miami. In addition, three previously-announced cancellations planned for Feb. 9 (Los Angeles-Boise, Chicago-Calgary and DFW-Fayetteville, N.C.) will be advanced to Jan. 31. We plan to notify the affected airports, customers and community leaders shortly.
Clearly, the timing of this announcement so close to the holidays is unfortunate – but we are committed to sharing information with you as soon as we can. We regret the impact on our people – not only the DFW-based Executive Airlines employees and those who work in support of that operation who are directly affected, but the other employees who may also be impacted through displacement.
Since we advised everyone at Eagle and Executive of a possible reduction in my letter last week, we have been working to define the exact number of employees who might ultimately be affected.
The restructuring process to shape American Eagle into a more competitive and successful company is both complex and challenging. But we are committed to working swiftly and making the necessary changes toward providing a brighter future for all of us.
Thank you again for all you do, despite the obvious distractions, to run a safe and reliable airline for our customers.
Dan Garton
roundout
VNAV monitor
Yeeeeah. So we're going back to the schoolhouse. I still can't shake the feeling that they'll come in and give everybody the axe rather than pay the big bucks for displacing 300 pilots, contracts and judges be damned. I'd give it 50/50 either way. Still haven't heard anything from the union, either. I get my news from EL.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
1) Most of what is posted on EL is BS
2)What big bucks? Eagles whole cost is very small compared to other costs at AMR. They could retrain our whole pilot group and it would cost less then the training cost from the 200 AA guys that just retired.
I doubt there will be any furloughs from the dfw atr closing (displacements yes).....we were already short, and still are short staffed, and now we are flying the EMJ even harder to try and makeup for the lost ATRs. If we did not park one airplane in 2012, we still would have had to hire at least 200 to get something closer to the correct staffing numbers (I know they said 700, but that was for many factors, I am just throwing 200 out there to get the coverage correct). Its Dec and we still have 1/2 the month in critical coverage, till that stuff stops, I think furloughs are still not coming up.
I do note all I said does not note the 20 sent home from the brand new class, which I think was just a knee jerk reaction.
I do note all I said does not note the 20 sent home from the brand new class, which I think was just a knee jerk reaction.
FlySooner9
Well-Known Member
i honestly feel like there wont be any "massive" furloughs out of this deal. I could see 2-300 which of course isn't good, but these guys throwing around numbers over 1000 i think will be wrong. APA will be forced to give up scope and AE will get at least a chunk of the larger RJ's that will be doing AA feed.
I'm still pissed about republic and skywest taking comair flying while delta crushed us.
a good amount also depends how our union works in BK, ASA and Comair had two very different outcomes from Ch11. You can also compare Mesaba and Compass. I would like to see the hard numbers on them. Also none of them made up 95%+ of a companies feed.
Also the feed market is different now than then, its too many factors for me to even comprehend, but I do not buy all of the doom and gloom, and trying to tie it to one previous example as opposed to another. Also half the people speculating all the doom/gloom on the internet, work for a company that may bid for the flying, and thus would accelerate their career because of that, and if they do not get the flying, they face either extended right seat time or possible furloughs.
Also the feed market is different now than then, its too many factors for me to even comprehend, but I do not buy all of the doom and gloom, and trying to tie it to one previous example as opposed to another. Also half the people speculating all the doom/gloom on the internet, work for a company that may bid for the flying, and thus would accelerate their career because of that, and if they do not get the flying, they face either extended right seat time or possible furloughs.
RPM
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you were here or not at the time but we were operating with only 2800-2900 pilots from 2006-2010.. same fleet size: about 25 more sF3's, a few more E- 135's, and 25 less CRJ's at the time so it's about even now.. Now we have 3200+ pilots, the most we have ever had by far. That's 300-400 over what they need to run this place (they like being short staffed). We will be VERY fat on pilots as soon as everyone from the training pipeline gets out on the line again. Now removing 15 aircraft next month (just to start) we are going to need 120 less. Furloughs ARE coming unless something drastic happens. I don't see any way around it. Nobody is flowing to AA anytime soon, thats what all the (extra) new hires were for according to DG. Their pilot needs at AA are going to go way down as soon as the bankruptcy judge guts their contract and increases productivity over there (currently they are the least productive pilots in the industry).. along with parking more AA aircraft at a much quicker rate than planned, the retirement #'s will be cancelled out, at least for the short term. Here at Eagle in January they are going to start looking at EMJ leases next, an unknown # of those will almost definitely be cut as well.. I know it isn't pleasant to think about furloughs but I'm just being realistic. The writing is on the wall. It's coming.
I'm going on year 6 here and I am doing everything I can to leave this sinking ship ASAP. I'm not sticking around for another 10+ year stagnation like before, it's not worth it.. I think things are going to get a lot worse here quickly when they start looking into cutting the EMJ's next month. If I was in the bottom 500 or so I would definitely be scrambling to find another job to be safe. Hopefully it doesn't happen.. but I wouldn't plan on that knowing how AMR operates..
FlySooner9
Well-Known Member
dont forget that even though nobody will be flowing to AA, there will still be a fair amount of people leaving for other majors as retirements kick in. Not saying it will be near enough to stop any furloughs but its something to keep in mind.
Im about 520 from the bottom and i feel fairly safe about furloughs but the question im asking myself is do i want to be stuck at the very bottom of a stagnant airline for xx number of years while other regionals could be seeing rapid movement the next xx years.
Im about 520 from the bottom and i feel fairly safe about furloughs but the question im asking myself is do i want to be stuck at the very bottom of a stagnant airline for xx number of years while other regionals could be seeing rapid movement the next xx years.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Your definition of rapid might be a bit different than mine. I was hired in 2007, and at this point, in the base case scenario, I'll upgrade in about 2 years from now, so December of 2013.
That's 6.5 years after I was hired.
Maybe you can discount the 2.5 years I spent on the street, but I wouldn't call anything rapid right now.
That's 6.5 years after I was hired.
Maybe you can discount the 2.5 years I spent on the street, but I wouldn't call anything rapid right now.
FlySooner9
Well-Known Member
not saying they are rapid right now, but id be willing to bed they will be in the next 5 years.
