Gulfstream Intl Airlines Is Now Silver Airways

WacoFan said:
Perhaps hyperbole - but would you rather be a TWA DC-9 Captain in 1979 or a Delta 777 Captain today? That's where I was going. Yes, it is still a "good career" in some respects - but it is far from what it was. I believe the relevant question is this: If you look at the decline of the job since 1980 for instance - what can you to to a) arrest the descent and b) start going to where it was? The trend has been downward, that's all I'm saying. I think Regionals are a big part of that, but not the only part.
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Sure, the job was certainly a hell of a lot better in the past. No argument there. But so were many other professions.

I disagree with the premise that we're going to experience a continuation of the decline. The decline we've seen over the past 30 years has largely been a result of the airlines slowly changing their business models as a result of deregulation. The pensions have now been dumped, the work rules have been changed, and the pay has been largely leveled across the industry. Do I think we'll get back to where we were? Of course not. But will we maintain present conditions, maybe some improvements? I think so.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sure, the job was certainly a hell of a lot better in the past. No argument there. But so were many other professions.

I disagree with the premise that we're going to experience a continuation of the decline. The decline we've seen over the past 30 years has largely been a result of the airlines slowly changing their business models as a result of deregulation. The pensions have now been dumped, the work rules have been changed, and the pay has been largely leveled across the industry. Do I think we'll get back to where we were? Of course not. But will we maintain present conditions, maybe some improvements? I think so.
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It's a race to the bottom, our economy strives on this. I can only see this industry going down. It already happened in the airline industry and is starting to happen in the freight, corporate sectors also. It's only going to get worse unless the 1500, duty/rest rules, hit hard and soon.
 
WacoFan said:
2) Do you enjoy your Hugo Boss suits?
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Pilots? In Hugo Boss suits? Have you ever met a pilot? Most of them only own one navy blue suit bought at Men's Wearhouse that was used for their interview 20 years ago and never taken out of the closet again. :)

Boris Badenov said:
I know Waco is just dithering away his time in theoretical pursuits, but I'm genuinely puzzled that ATN defends a company that he himself says engaged in totally unethical business practices and victimized both him directly and the rest of us by extention. Stockholm Syndrome?
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My point isn't to defend the company or their management. My point is that it is a legitimate regional airline with a legitimate contract that bears consideration by newbie pilots looking to break into the industry and start their careers. I think it's irresponsible for people to scare people away based on out of date prejudices. Newbies reading here could pass up a good opportunity based on things said by experienced posters like you. I wouldn't want that to happen.

Jet said:
Are they going to raise their captain pay? GIA year 2 CA pay = year 2 FO pay at other regionals
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You do realize that they're flying 19-seat turboprops, right? That pay is industry standard for that size equipment.
 
I also find it funny that so many believe a management swap fixes everything. Most of the time it's status quo, sometimes you get lucky, but I'd say it's not the majority. The company went bankrupt for a reason, I wouldn't drink the kool-aid.
 
jhugz said:
No, No it's not.
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Yeah, you're right. GIA's is better:

Commutair: $32/hr
Great Lakes: $29/hr
GIA: $34/hr

As far as I know, those are the only regionals around still flying small turboprop equipment. Colgan's pay was also less when they flew 1900s. It's not a Q400, so it ain't going to pay like one.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
As far as I know, those are the only regionals around still flying small turboprop equipment. Colgan's pay was also less when they flew 1900s. It's not a Q400, so it ain't going to pay like one.
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There's different segments of the industry that fly the same equipment for a much better wage. To say industry standard is a joke.
 
jhugz said:
If you can find one that isn't some corporate management gig, I'd shake your hand.
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Then find me a B1900 job that isn't part of a corporate management gig... The Gulfstream or Silver deal is industry standard in that segment of aviation just as your job is industry standard for that segment (perhaps a little better than standard, I'll give you that.) Sidenote-Alpine pay is better than where you are at? Pay might be higher but your QOL will = hell.

Point is, GIA/Silver isn't undercutting anyone operating B1900s part 121. Just as regionals aren't undercutting anyone operating CRJs or whatever in the 121 segment. Sure there are higher paying jobs out there on that aircraft, but not in the 121 market. Unfortunately the standard is set pretty low. I guess I'm not really disagreeing with you, but if I were in the position as a broke 250 hour commercial pilot I might look at GIA. Degrading nothing, but not really raising the bar either.
 
"If I were in the position as a broke 250 hour commercial pilot I might look at GIA".
haha I resemble that remark.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You do realize that they're flying 19-seat turboprops, right? That pay is industry standard for that size equipment.
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It's funny because I remember mentioning the pay per seat concept on this forum a few months back and I got flamed every which way from sunday for even bringing it up. The regional I work for pays their year 2 prop captains $66/hr vs GIA $34, granted I'm not comparing the same size turbo props but seriously, that pay is ridiculous for a 121 captain. If I get laid off next month, I would rather let my career go backwards and instruct Chinese around the practice area than disrespect myself with the GIA payscale.
 
Boris Badenov said:
And just why do you imagine that might be?
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Because pilots have always negotiated higher pay rates for bigger equipment. I'm more of a fan of straight longevity and seat pay, but that has never caught on (except at UPS, as you point out). Generally, pilots argue against it when it's brought up, because everyone sees themselves as being that bigger airplane driver eventually, and they get dollar signs in their eyes without running the numbers and realizing the time value of money.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Generally, pilots argue against it when it's brought up, because everyone sees themselves as being that bigger airplane driver eventually, and they get dollar signs in their eyes without running the numbers and realizing the time value of money.
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Couldn't agree more. So pick a side. Either we're unionists or we're cut-throat, self-interested independent contractors. It's the middle ground that invites...strike that, BEGS corruption. Everyone gets the same wage, regardless of what they fly, where they fly it, or who's in the back. Or it's a free market. One or the other. Everything else is sophistry. If Unionism is to be embraced (and I believe it should be), that must be its ultimate goal, just as wage-slaves being grateful they have a hot bunk to sleep in and warm gruel to eat must be the ultimate goal of management. They know this is Total War, why don't we?
 
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