Effect of Phil Trenery Still Being Felt

Wage concessions fix squat, you are 100% correct.

However, they're going to sell the concessions snake oil to the unenlightened at your airline so get the word out!
 
kellwolf said:
And herein lies the problem. Wage concessions are faster than streamlining the operation. The Pinnacle way has been fat dumb and happy on the corporate side of things for years. We've got upper and middle management guys I have no clue what they do. Honestly, I think they have positions because they toady to the upper management and have friends there. At least a few of those are gone now. I'm still not sure why DW still has a job. He was supposed to be either sent some place else or seeking other opportunities in his career by now. He's still in his "screw the pilots" job, though. Why we're even running two separate airlines is beyond me. We've got the setup to have one management structure, and our unionized labor are all going to be on the same seniority lists. There's no reason to waste the $$$ by having a "Pinnacle" and "Mesaba" operation. Just have one, and who cares which name they pick.

Joe, I don't necessarily think MEM is a bad place to have a HQ. Real estate is cheaper than Eagan down here. The big mistake was going for prestigious downtown address with multiple floors immediately after buying an airline and before realizing the costs savings of the merger. You're right, though. That was ALL Uncle Phil and his desire to be a big man on campus in the Memphis business circles. I think that move is seriously hurting us financially. It should have been pushed back a few years.

As for not being able to handle the flying we have, I have to chalk that up to inefficiencies more than a lack of staffing, at least on our side of things. Most of the reserves in JFK and MEM hardly fly. If we can't handle our flying, then scheduling is dropping the ball. It's different than when all the reserves were flying and everyone was being extended into their days off. If I'm getting 18 day off lines, reserves are sitting in crash pads playing Call of Duty and we still can't cover stuff, then I don't thing wage concessions will fix a damn thing.
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All three of your points here are spot on!

Why do we have two seperate airlines? It just doesn't make sense, Pinnacle used to have saabs on their cert and adding the Q really wouldn't be that difficult I'm sure. I would suggest keeping the Mesaba cert because they currently have the saabs and both crj types, but that would be beating a dead horse...after all we went FSDO shopping on that one.

MEM is damn cheap, so in a way it makes a lot of sense to move there. But yes, too much too soon. I also sometimes wonder if the whole labor market down there is less educated/dumber or if the corps just seeks out the biggest of the idiots. Nonetheless I think that middle management and many other departments could use a splash of new talent.

[Jim Mora voice] Wage concessions? Don't talk about wage concessions!! Are you kidding me?? Wage concessions!?! [end Jim Mora]

Look as soon as they can build schedules and utilize the crews so that we're flying our schedule on-time and efficiently then they can come and talk to us and try and show us how our payrates are making us uncompetitive in the jet eat jet world that is regional flying.
 
crazyjaydawg said:
All three of your points here are spot on!

Why do we have two seperate airlines? It just doesn't make sense, Pinnacle used to have saabs on their cert and adding the Q really wouldn't be that difficult I'm sure. I would suggest keeping the Mesaba cert because they currently have the saabs and both crj types, but that would be beating a dead horse...after all we went FSDO shopping on that one.

[Jim Mora voice] Wage concessions? Don't talk about wage concessions!! Are you kidding me?? Wage concessions!?! [end Jim Mora] <-Awsome!
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+ AQP that DAL paid for, Better manuals, Less wasteful training dept., and part of the Q classes are being held in Eagan. It would be best to modernize and streamline the whole operation by merging operating certificates or just moving everything on to the XJ certificate and have two training facilities for now while finding a way out of Phil's big lease. However we are in past the point of return so im sure none of this matters or will be done. I guess its time to see who has the lowest contracts so when they file we will know what our pay rates will be....:concern:
 
kellwolf said:
Joe, I don't necessarily think MEM is a bad place to have a HQ. Real estate is cheaper than Eagan down here. The big mistake was going for prestigious downtown address with multiple floors immediately after buying an airline and before realizing the costs savings of the merger. You're right, though. That was ALL Uncle Phil and his desire to be a big man on campus in the Memphis business circles. I think that move is seriously hurting us financially. It should have been pushed back a few years.
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Well, normally I don't like disagreeing with you, mostly because you are a brighter bulb than me, but let me voice a concern. Why are we trying to stay in Memphis when Delta is pulling out a pilot base? We don't want to turn into Compass, running operations out of DTW, MSP, and MEM while basing themselves in Chantilly,VA to keep with the FSDO the cert was owned by. MEM could be cheap for us, Phil elected to set us up an office we can't afford and I don't think we'll get any use out of. If we want to cheap lets head to DTW, that base isn't going away. Eagan may be a bit more expensive rent and real estate, but it's ready to go, it's light years beyond the stupid Colgan strip mall, or the stupid Pinnacle strip mall. Eagan is also devoid of the Phil stink.
 
Hire Blackwat.... wait, I mean Xe.... Nah, I mean Academi to clear out some residential blocks of crackheads in Detroit. Hit Ikea, voila, you could have a few city blocks for your new HQ and probably even get some HUD redevelopment money to make it snappy.
 
PNCL should be getting at least 50% off of rent with those damn elevators at HQ. If you've worked there for a day, you'll know what I mean.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Well, normally I don't like disagreeing with you, mostly because you are a brighter bulb than me, but let me voice a concern. Why are we trying to stay in Memphis when Delta is pulling out a pilot base? We don't want to turn into Compass, running operations out of DTW, MSP, and MEM while basing themselves in Chantilly,VA to keep with the FSDO the cert was owned by. MEM could be cheap for us, Phil elected to set us up an office we can't afford and I don't think we'll get any use out of. If we want to cheap lets head to DTW, that base isn't going away. Eagan may be a bit more expensive rent and real estate, but it's ready to go, it's light years beyond the stupid Colgan strip mall, or the stupid Pinnacle strip mall. Eagan is also devoid of the Phil stink.
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You don't necessarily need to have your HQ where a pilot base is. If MEM were to close altogether, would it make sense to move to DTW since that's where all the flying is? Most of our stuff is done via the internet, ACARS or over the phone anyway. We could have our HQ in the middle of Oklahoma and it shouldn't affect the daily operations. Isn't Air Whisky's HQ in, well, Wisconsin?
 
kellwolf said:
You don't necessarily need to have your HQ where a pilot base is. If MEM were to close altogether, would it make sense to move to DTW since that's where all the flying is? Most of our stuff is done via the internet, ACARS or over the phone anyway. We could have our HQ in the middle of Oklahoma and it shouldn't affect the daily operations. Isn't Air Whisky's HQ in, well, Wisconsin?
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Appleton, WI at that. Is there service to Appleton, or do you have to drive up to HQ from Milwaukee?
 
Jeez it's like Trenery and his group pillaged pncl like some kind of viking raid.
This should be illegal.
 
I gotta hand it to our mec and union leadership. They are a class act. I don't know how we are going to come out of this thing, but i'm confident that the team we have in place is the right one.
 
Think that pncl would approve a 12 month leave right now? I've got some ideas brewing... and a backolog of other work to catch up on.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
Think that pncl would approve a 12 month leave right now? I've got some ideas brewing... and a backolog of other work to catch up on.
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I know when we were having "issues" back during the extreme down turn (when everyone else was furloughing and we were merely overstaffed), the were approving LOAs like they were going out of style. Part time lines were even offered, but you had to be a 10 year CA/5 year FO to hold one they went so senior. It's already built into the contract using most of the stuff that was used back then for those. I don't see why they couldn't just throw the switch on it. If the offered either one, they'd have guys tripping over themselves to sign up. 'Course last time they offered long term LOAs a lot of those guys just never came back, too....
 
kellwolf said:
You don't necessarily need to have your HQ where a pilot base is. If MEM were to close altogether, would it make sense to move to DTW since that's where all the flying is? Most of our stuff is done via the internet, ACARS or over the phone anyway. We could have our HQ in the middle of Oklahoma and it shouldn't affect the daily operations. Isn't Air Whisky's HQ in, well, Wisconsin?
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Before I start this new forum program is freaking me out

I agree we don't necessarily need to have the HQ where the pilot base is, I know compass had it in Chantilly that's why I cited it. It's stupid to run a company like that I don't care what Wisconsin does. Compass, it should be noted, moved to Eagan eventually.

We could have done a good job in Memphis picking a place to have the operation, we didn't. Get rid of the stupid building we can't afford to be in anyway and just keep everything in Eagan. When we get done with our 12 months of projects we can move to some hole in OK to save a few bucks on the rent if that's what we need. Eagan is ready, it's top of the line, it's not a strip mall, it doesn't have the Trenary stink... it'd be like a real company and everything.

My apprehension about this MEM HQ is Menke can't go more than a day without complaining about the cost, the Delta pilot base appears to be evaporating, and we have something useful in Eagan. There's a lot of talent, a lot of hard working people (yes I'm saying Memphis doesn't have that), and MSP appears to be staying a base for a long time to come.

I think we are wasting our time and energy moving (moved) into that stupid building, and it would be one thing if we didn't already HAVE something, but we do.

Maybe it's stupid to whine about it, I don't know, but I just see it as another blithering stupid moron dipstick (in other words, Trenary) thing to do in and effort to run us into the ground and go into bankruptcy. I thought you and I would be working at Best Buy by now stocking shelves anyway.
 
kellwolf said:
I know when we were having "issues" back during the extreme down turn (when everyone else was furloughing and we were merely overstaffed), the were approving LOAs like they were going out of style. Part time lines were even offered, but you had to be a 10 year CA/5 year FO to hold one they went so senior. It's already built into the contract using most of the stuff that was used back then for those. I don't see why they couldn't just throw the switch on it. If the offered either one, they'd have guys tripping over themselves to sign up. 'Course last time they offered long term LOAs a lot of those guys just never came back, too....
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I would be all over a part time position right now... Even better, if I could take an LOA and then contract myself back at as a check airman for times of need, I would LOVE it!

I've got a solid amount of work backed up, and have been turning away shoots/projects at about 75% rate... which hurts in the end. I've also got a few personal projects I "want" to tackle this spring, but, I've got no way to split for 2-3 months without leaving 9l permanently, and I don't want to toss my life in that direction again.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Before I start this new forum program is freaking me out

I agree we don't necessarily need to have the HQ where the pilot base is, I know compass had it in Chantilly that's why I cited it. It's stupid to run a company like that I don't care what Wisconsin does. Compass, it should be noted, moved to Eagan eventually.

We could have done a good job in Memphis picking a place to have the operation, we didn't. Get rid of the stupid building we can't afford to be in anyway and just keep everything in Eagan. When we get done with our 12 months of projects we can move to some hole in OK to save a few bucks on the rent if that's what we need. Eagan is ready, it's top of the line, it's not a strip mall, it doesn't have the Trenary stink... it'd be like a real company and everything.

My apprehension about this MEM HQ is Menke can't go more than a day without complaining about the cost, the Delta pilot base appears to be evaporating, and we have something useful in Eagan. There's a lot of talent, a lot of hard working people (yes I'm saying Memphis doesn't have that), and MSP appears to be staying a base for a long time to come.

I think we are wasting our time and energy moving (moved) into that stupid building, and it would be one thing if we didn't already HAVE something, but we do.

Maybe it's stupid to whine about it, I don't know, but I just see it as another blithering stupid moron dipstick (in other words, Trenary) thing to do in and effort to run us into the ground and go into bankruptcy. I thought you and I would be working at Best Buy by now stocking shelves anyway.
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I don't know the financials on the building in Eagan, so I can't say if it would have been less expensive to move operations there or if it would have been better to just stay where we were. Not the safest place in town, but the rent is cheaper than downtown. You also have to factor in they'd already spent money moving a lot of Colgan operations to MEM. Would it have been cost effective to move all of that AGAIN to Eagan? Like I said, without knowing the financials for the building in Eagan, I can't honestly say. I do think moving on up to the high rise was a Big Mistake....
 
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