Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time.....

Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

dustoff17 said:
RELAX Blackhawk! This WAS a Fiasco!!

You're apparently refering to injuries that occur during an emergency evacuation, right? People pushing, screaming, plane on fire, smoke, end of runway, people running all directions, snow all around, long distance to safety, up hill, both ways,etc......

How many pilots and/or flight attendants are injured going down the slide while going through training? I'm guessing very few or OSHA would be putting it in sideways to all the airlines. And why so few? I'm guessing its because they were told HOW to do it safely AND they had plenty of time to approach the slide.

I wasn't there Blackhawk and my guess is that you weren't either so, take a deep breath and read on:

As a scenario only, how about this: Taxi up to the building as close as you can (even if you have to stick the nose in between two planes parked at the gate). Explain to all the passengers how to properly slide down (heck you would have 7 HOURS to cover even the smallest of details!), exit orderly, no bags, one row at a time, have a ground crew at the bottom to help at the slide and another couple of helpers to escort everyone the mere 50 yards into the building, even in a full blown blizzard I could make it 50 yards in a tropical shirt and flip-flops.

OR if you want to take the "drama" approach to which you were referring; open the door, pop the slide, set the plane on fire and scream "GO"! Either way, it's GOTTA be better than sitting on a plane for SEVEN hours!
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Or how about this:

You're 75 years old visiting your kids after leaving PIE. You've sat in this damn plane for 7 hours, your depends have filled up, but at least you're warm. Now you have some FA announce everyone is going to shoot down a 30ft slide in a blizzard. You're sitting at the front of course, and first in line, but someone gets a little antsy and bumps into you. Now you go tumbling down the slide, land on the concrete, and break your hip and ankle, while 5 more pax tumble down, land on top you, leaving you unable to move in a blizzard, with nothing but your shorts and flip flops on. Emergency services are tied up elsewhere, (it is a blizzard after all,) so all you can do is lay there and freeze in the snow.

Which sounds like the worse outcome?
 
Pilot B pops open the door and shimmies down a rope to ground. He then proceeds to grab a tug and tow bar, attach it to the plane occupying the gate, pushes out to the area where his plane won't mesh paint together. Pilot B now shimmies back up the rope but he can't because his fingers are frozen. He warms them up in the jet exhaust until they no longer look frost bitten. He finally makes his way back on board whereas pilot A now asks what took him so long. They proceed to taxi into the gate. Problem solved. Oh and pilot B is obviously the copilot so get those upgrades in quick!
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

pullup said:
Pilot B pops open the door and shimmies down a rope to ground. He then proceeds to grab a tug and tow bar, attach it to the plane occupying the gate, pushes out to the area where his plane won't mesh paint together. Pilot B now shimmies back up the rope but he can't because his fingers are frozen. He warms them up in the jet exhaust until they no longer look frost bitten. He finally makes his way back on board whereas pilot A now asks what took him so long and wheres the fresh starbucks. They proceed to taxi into the gate. Problem solved. Oh and pilot B is obviously the copilot so get those upgrades in quick!
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correction added.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

Blackhawk said:
If you think the El Paso airport could have handled the situation you need to stop partaking of the stuff on the other side of the border.
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Well, you can always tell when someone's on the losing end of a discussion. They have to resort to something such as this.

Okay, we're done. I don't "partake" in discussions when it heads toward the personal.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

I have a co-worker who claims to have been on a carrier many years back (like 20+ years ago) that was stuck on the ramp for hours and they wouldn't let anyone off or move the plane. He says that he got up from his seat, walked to the exit, put his hand on the release and told the attendant to call the captain and tell them that if he didn't see buses and stairs driving out to the plane to let everyone off within 10 minutes, he was popping the slide. He claims it worked and then he was arrested, questioned and eventually released... he said it was worth it but to this day is not allowed to ride that carrier. I dont know if it's true, but knowing this guy I have little reason to doubt it.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

pullup said:
Pilot B pops open the door and shimmies down a rope to ground. He then proceeds to grab a tug and tow bar, attach it to the plane occupying the gate, pushes out to the area where his plane won't mesh paint together. Pilot B now shimmies back up the rope but he can't because his fingers are frozen. He warms them up in the jet exhaust until they no longer look frost bitten. He finally makes his way back on board whereas pilot A now asks what took him so long. They proceed to taxi into the gate. Problem solved. Oh and pilot B is obviously the copilot so get those upgrades in quick!
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I like this one even better than my "Just something to think about" option. At least you would be doing something!

Of course I forgot to add in my "scenario" that no one would be FORCED off the plane or pushed down the slide.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

cmill said:
Or how about this:

You're 75 years old visiting your kids after leaving PIE. You've sat in this damn plane for 7 hours, your depends have filled up, but at least you're warm. Now you have some FA announce everyone is going to shoot down a 30ft slide in a blizzard. You're sitting at the front of course, and first in line, but someone gets a little antsy and bumps into you. Now you go tumbling down the slide, land on the concrete, and break your hip and ankle, while 5 more pax tumble down, land on top you, leaving you unable to move in a blizzard, with nothing but your shorts and flip flops on. Emergency services are tied up elsewhere, (it is a blizzard after all,) so all you can do is lay there and freeze in the snow.

Which sounds like the worse outcome?
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My apologies to you BLACKHAWK, this one has more drama than yours! I didn't realize we were going for an Oscar, my bad.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

Disregarding some of the ludicrous hypotheticals that this thread has degenerated into, I would like to know: Who are you actually talking to on your company's ops frequency? (eg when you radio in "Ops flight 1234, we're 10 minutes out, we'll need a lav dump, 2 wheelchairs and #2 oil quantity is low..." etc etc.) Is it the ramp supervisor? The dispatcher? Some other airline operations-type personnel? The VHF radio is one of many potential methods of communication between the pilot and their company, which could also include text messaging through ACARS, a satellite phone or perhaps even a cell phone call to your dispatcher. Dispatch in turn has a telephone, which can be used to contact the airlines owning the adjacent gates at the airport in question, who employ their own ramp personnel who may or may not also be tied up, who may or may not have an extra tug, towbar and set of airstairs or two to spare. They undoubtedly have the phone number to the airport authority, which employs a police department and ARFF personnel, maintenance workers, likely a fleet of buses or at least the means to get buses into the secure area of the ramp to shuttle passengers from remote parking, and the ability to grant access to real estate within the terminal for the deplaned passengers to stage.

With all these options available to the PIC (which judging from the recording he presumably attempted to exercise), why would the dispatcher not be banging their head against the wall on the phone with all those potential parties coming up with a game plan to get the people moved off the airplane? I know a lot of users on this site are dispatchers, ramp supervisors or agents and gate agents, and I mean no disrespect whatsoever - but maybe you guys can help me understand why this kind of thing happens despite all the employed people whose job responsibilities include getting the airplane safely to the gate.

Is there no such thing as professional courtesy between airlines? (i.e. "Hey remember that last time we bailed you guys out? Well now we've got a bunch of stranded passengers at Bradley in the remote parking, we need some airstairs. You guys owe us.") Do competing airlines want to see each other fail so badly that this doesn't happen?

I would guess that much like aviation accidents, these situations result from a chain of events rather than a singular one. However we have a diverse enough forum demographic here that I bet we could start a really interesting discussion between those who work on the flight deck, the ramp, at the gate and back in airline operations or dispatch and compare what challenges you face in a situation like this and what options you have available at your disposal (or don't) to solve the problem.

It might be a tad more productive than fighting over how many hours you're going to wait before you grab two beers and pop the emergency slide. ;)
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

flyeagle111 said:
I have claustrophobia to a certain extent (only usually kicks in on elevators and if waiting a while to unload from the back on a plane) and I would be having a major panic attack if I was stuck on this airplane. There's no way I could have lasted 3+ hours without passing out.
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Are you a pilot?
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

hambone said:
Are you a pilot?
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Student. I have no problem with claustrophobia when I am in control of the situation (aka sitting in the pilot's seat). Sitting on the back of an RJ for 20 minutes without the APU running in summer, while waiting to deplane, can be a challenge. The issue is everyone standing up around me like sheep.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

flyeagle111 said:
Student. I have no problem with claustrophobia when I am in control of the situation (aka sitting in the pilot's seat). Sitting on the back of an RJ for 20 minutes without the APU running in summer, while waiting to deplane, can be a challenge. The issue is everyone standing up around me like sheep.
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Curiously, does the feeling manifest itself in larger-cabin aircraft with people standing up around you too? Or is it the "crowd factor" combined with the more confining space? It's just an interesting phenomena as its causal factors can vary widely from person to person, and are oftentimes only subtle differences between persons.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

Interesting twist the the story. The Captain in question has (according to some) been strong armed my B6 management into making a podcast saying that he actually had good support from the company during the incident and might have made some bad decisions himself.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

BobDDuck said:
Interesting twist the the story. The Captain in question has (according to some) been strong armed my B6 management into making a podcast saying that he actually had good support from the company during the incident and might have made some bad decisions himself.
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Like how North Vietnamese interrogators would attempt to make POWs in Hanoi record tapes speaking to their good treatment they were receiving and decrying their own actions as war criminals.

Interesting.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

MikeD said:
Like how North Vietnamese interrogators would attempt to make POWs in Hanoi record tapes speaking to their good treatment they were receiving and decrying their own actions as war criminals.

Interesting.
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Haha oh man, this analogy is so awesome given the subject matter. :)
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

BobDDuck said:
Interesting twist the the story. The Captain in question has (according to some) been strong armed my B6 management into making a podcast saying that he actually had good support from the company during the incident and might have made some bad decisions himself.
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This is true.. Most of us at B6 are appalled. First time I heard it I had flashbacks to SERE. Funny how they don't single out all the others in the chain that dropped the ball that day. The Capt. was against ALPA...sure he felt pretty lonely when he was called into HQ to "explain" what he meant by the company being of no help.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

Well, maybe there is an Academic Moment (I think that's the term?) in here for some of the NO voters.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

It's funny.

Some years ago (approaching 8 years), I was operating a scheduled flight for, well, We'll call them "Codeshare X", into BDL. As luck did had it, I had a whole flight crew of "Airline X"s in back scheduled to take a plane out. It was a pretty rough snowstorm, much like in the B6 situation.

Well, Airline X had 2 gates in BDL, both occupied by Airline Xs metal. My chariot required a jetbridge or external stairs.

Now, the following ordeal was about 3 hours on the ground. I was remotely parked to get all this sorted out. After calling into OPS, they said they WOULD NOT remove Airline X's plane (which the outbound crew for was on my airplane, mind you) off the gate since it was to depart prior to me coming into the gate. After my epic facepalm, I was in contact with my dispatch. We used ACARS and cell phones to try to get this straightened out. This was the last flight of my day too, so one of my colleagues was inside the terminal working on the issue as well.

At this point, we're in contact with Airline X's station, dispatch and everyone. I kept Airline X's crew informed through the FAs, who were calling their airline SOC too. The station refused to move the one plane off the gate so I could park.

Eventually, as we were also a codeshare with Airline Y who operated the same fleet type, they stepped up and let us park on their gate to deplane.

Needless to say, I was not a happy guy. Of course I filed the appropriate reports, and there was never any feedback to me.

It's not just B6.
 
Re: Even pilot blames JetBlue for 7 hours of tarmac time....

Blackhawk said:
Cracking down on whom? Should we punish the airlines if the airport does not have the proper facilities to support unusual operations such as this? I don't know all the details, but it sounds as if Hartford Airport got overwhelmed, not JetBlue. It was the airport that lost power, not JetBlue. It was the airport that did not have the stairs to service remote airplanes, not JetBlue. An airline can only put an airplane in a spot that is available, they can't crap the spot or make it out of thin air. I'm reminded of seeing a bunch of international flights diverting into Augusta, Georgia. The place was not made to handle a large number of international flights. Heck, the FBO did not even know how to fuel some of the airplanes and the airport did not have the facilities to deplane the pax. Was it the fault of the airlines that the pax were stranded for hours or the airport's fault?
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Blame Newark, a major international airport and hub of the northeast and New York City, for causing flights to divert. The USA needs to improve its infrastructure, or this will continue to happen.
 
 
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