Realignment Round 2 at 9E

kellwolf said:
This. Just like getting your 737 type from Higher Power isn't negated if you don't fly a 737 for a decade afterwards. However, and SIC type, like others have alluded to, isn't worth a whole lot.
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Certain ones, like "M202 M404" are a conversation starter.
 
Hard to believe to be awarded a MSP -900 FO seat you have to be damned near upgrade seniority on the jet side. The majority of the Colgan upgrades on the Q and SAAB don't even have the seniority for it.
 
cencal83406 said:
Not an argument, a fact. Colgan pilots got the three-fer save. Planes from Pinnacle pilots, contract from Mesaba pilots, and unlimited out of seniority order upgrades from Bloch. Great day to not be a Mesaba or Pinnacle FO.
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A few things here...

1) To make it REALLY messy, the CJC Pilots could have stayed nonunion and the growth would have been funneled our way anyway and y'all would have been whipsawed against us making it really really really ugly. But we stood up for what was wrong; many of us were threatened by management goons for organizing, and worked to raise the bar.

2) We were in our own contract talks and were going to make gains regardless. Yes we did benefit from the Mesaba contract, as the PCL Pilots, but we also brought something to the table as did the PCL Pilots and the MSA Pilots.

3) From my understanding, those that were displaced out of the CRJ-200 Captain seat COULD have remained a Captain at the company if their pref bids had Q400 Captain in EWR. But a lot of those who were displaced didn't have that on their bid. Once again, not the CJC Pilots problem. If that wasn't communicated to the PCL Pilots to bid everything 'just in case', not the CJC Pilots problem.

4) The CJC Pilots didn't elect the PCL or MSA Merger Committees, your respective MECs did. If you feel like you have been screwed by the Bloch awards, bring it up to your respective merger committee.

5) I look forward to working with y'all in the future, delivering a superior product for our code share partners, and beating the piss out of our competition for these RFPs so we have more growth for the PCL Corp.
 
cencal83406 said:
No. Amazingly enough, the fence for the Pinnacle-pilot purchased Q's is 193... After which Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots can bump you to reserve.
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Just like a Mesaba pilot to think they know everything and run their mouth for the world to hear. Too bad I'm not a Colganite, but glad we established you fit the stereo type.
 
I don't get it if they didn't have the seniority for it shouldn't the people junior to them at Colgan be furious right now?
 
vandriver said:
Just like a Mesaba pilot to think they know everything and run their mouth for the world to hear. Too bad I'm not a Colganite, but glad we established you fit the stereo type.
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If you aren't XJ, 9L, or 9E, what is your point?

Seggy said:
A few things here...

1) To make it REALLY messy, the CJC Pilots could have stayed nonunion and the growth would have been funneled our way anyway and y'all would have been whipsawed against us making it really really really ugly. But we stood up for what was wrong; many of us were threatened by management goons for organizing, and worked to raise the bar.

2) We were in our own contract talks and were going to make gains regardless. Yes we did benefit from the Mesaba contract, as the PCL Pilots, but we also brought something to the table as did the PCL Pilots and the MSA Pilots.

3) From my understanding, those that were displaced out of the CRJ-200 Captain seat COULD have remained a Captain at the company if their pref bids had Q400 Captain in EWR. But a lot of those who were displaced didn't have that on their bid. Once again, not the CJC Pilots problem. If that wasn't communicated to the PCL Pilots to bid everything 'just in case', not the CJC Pilots problem.

4) The CJC Pilots didn't elect the PCL or MSA Merger Committees, your respective MECs did. If you feel like you have been screwed by the Bloch awards, bring it up to your respective merger committee.

5) I look forward to working with y'all in the future, delivering a superior product for our code share partners, and beating the piss out of our competition for these RFPs so we have more growth for the PCL Corp.
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Mark, my problem isn't the line 9L guy - it is the guys that like to tell my buddies and I how awesome they are bidding the jets. There are a lot of things wrong with the last 4 years at PCL Corp. Colgan should have been integrated almost immediately. The MC's at XJ and 9E should have had fair proposals. Why did Corp have to buy an airline for the Q's when we already had contract language for new aircraft?

My final point is that I have no illusions of what was brought to the table. I may feel that 9L didn't bring anything, but 9E sure didn't bring anything either. We had 16 planes.
jynxyjoe said:
Fixed for you

Edit: To be clear that was a dig at for you for not knowing what you are talking about, not at the Pinnacles pilot. Hope Tram doesn't have me in a headlock tomorrow.
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Lol good call Joe. Thanks.

Trust me, it's not just Pinnacle FOs that are pissed off. My buddy who is 200 #s ahead of me, but now still an FO, is counting the exact numbers of non-XJ guys upgrading.
 
Mesaba: Brought contract / No longer needs to furlough

Pinnacle: Brought money / Finally out of negotiations

Colgan: Brought growth / Got a contract

As for the Bloch award, there were winners and losers on all properties. Now that 11-09 is over, all the quotas are filled and vacancy awards should be much closer to straight seniority. I understand folks are still pissed about what has transpired, but, just think what could have happened had we not ended this whip-saw, and what could happen if we continue to throw daggers and divide the pilot group? Very soon we might be tested as a single pilot group...how would you like to meet that challenge? United or divided?
 
I unsubscribed awhile ago but I can't believe this thing is still going and it keeps finding its way back to this subject.

I don't really have a dog in the fight though so I guess that's why I don't understand.

*continues to watch and form opinions*
 
CEWLGUY said:
Mesaba: Brought contract / No longer needs to furlough

Pinnacle: Brought money / Finally out of negotiations

Colgan: Brought growth / Got a contract

As for the Bloch award, there were winners and losers on all properties. Now that 11-09 is over, all the quotas are filled and vacancy awards should be much closer to straight seniority. I understand folks are still pissed about what has transpired, but, just think what could have happened had we not ended this whip-saw, and what could happen if we continue to throw daggers and divide the pilot group? Very soon we might be tested as a single pilot group...how would you like to meet that challenge? United or divided?
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Depends... are the XJ and 9E guys whose career expectation was CRJ CA going to get CRJ CA spots? Or is it going to continue to be 9L guys getting CRJ CA spots when their career expectation was SAAB CA (fixed to Q CA by PCL Inc/Corp)....

Funny how I wasted my time worrying about the XJ MC worrying about my DOH when XJ and 9E MCs should have looked out for their mid-juniority FOs WRT the fences...

Fences work both ways... if anything, the fence for the Q for XJ and 9E is fair, the fence for the SAAB is mediocre at best, and the lack thereof a fence for the CRJ (especially with no reduction in Q/SAAB fence) is a freakin' joke.
 
cencal83406 said:
Funny how I wasted my time worrying about the XJ MC worrying about my DOH when XJ and 9E MCs should have looked out for their mid-juniority FOs WRT the fences...
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XJ negotiators did an alright job for the mid level XJ FO's, after all the Pinnacle plan was to pretend there were only 705 guys on the active SL (auto furloughing me and some dozens of FO's in front of me), and all Colgan FO slots are beneath me...

The fences do seem goofy but not enough that anyone is challenging them.

More importantly why worry about the past? Perhaps your next merger will go better for you, as much screwing went around just the laws of big numbers say you're due a win.
 
jynxyjoe said:
XJ negotiators did an alright job for the mid level XJ FO's, after all the Pinnacle plan was to pretend there were only 705 guys on the active SL (auto furloughing me and some dozens of FO's in front of me), and all Colgan FO slots are beneath me...

The fences do seem goofy but not enough that anyone is challenging them.

More importantly why worry about the past? Perhaps your next merger will go better for you, as much screwing went around just the laws of big numbers say you're due a win.
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:) haha. I have to be honest here - the thing that set me the most at ease was talking to ST (on your MC). He lives about 2 apartments over up here in the D. Smart guy. I have to say though, I wonder sometimes how you're taking this so well, since my XJ friends up here are *not* happy. And I didn't hear them talking about Pinnacle guys, I heard them counting Colgan upgrades....

And - our guys were TERRIBLE. JH is an IDIOT. I thought better of JW before. I can only imagine that PS the junior guy was hoodwinked into their terrible plan.

DFR lawsuit (with them named primarily), is just bound to happen....... you didn't hear it here first.

Oh and one last thing... as much as I "discuss" it here, it's because we're on a forum mostly. I'm really indifferent in the crew room. I agree, it's the way the cookie crumbles, honestly. Might as well stir the pot / have a debate here, though, right? Point of a forum being... agreement?

Eventually we'll upgrade and GTFO, which is all anyone from the three pre-merger groups can hope for.
 
cencal83406 said:
:) haha. I have to be honest here - the thing that set me the most at ease was talking to ST (on your MC). He lives about 2 apartments over up here in the D. Smart guy. I have to say though, I wonder sometimes how you're taking this so well, since my XJ friends up here are *not* happy. And I didn't hear them talking about Pinnacle guys, I heard them counting Colgan upgrades....

And - our guys were TERRIBLE. JH is an IDIOT. I thought better of JW before. I can only imagine that PS the junior guy was hoodwinked into their terrible plan.

DFR lawsuit (with them named primarily), is just bound to happen....... you didn't hear it here first.

Oh and one last thing... as much as I "discuss" it here, it's because we're on a forum mostly. I'm really indifferent in the crew room. I agree, it's the way the cookie crumbles, honestly. Might as well stir the pot / have a debate here, though, right? Point of a forum being... agreement?

Eventually we'll upgrade and GTFO, which is all anyone from the three pre-merger groups can hope for.
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I got most of my angst out during the merger, when it all concluded I ran out of gas. Well timed really.

To recap:
I was worried about our senior guys, who have firmly planted themselves as lifers on purpose, not getting a fair shake. However, with their 2.7 to 1 award I think they made out OK :). The (late) '00 to '04 hires got the back end of that 1:3 when it turned into a 6:1, and that was just embarrassing, I don't know how that made sense to Bloch. I fly with many of those people and I'm sorry for them. Also, whatever category the Q guys were tossed into was just weird, but it's not like there were many of them, and I figure they gobbled up with a smile all the poop Colgan fed to them for years (the poop I walked out on because I think it's crazy to get treated like that) so on a cosmic balance I can kinda see where they were put. Still I think the moniker "worst to first" will stick on those guys for a while. The Colgan FO slots got rogered but they'll get to upgrade in front of everyone at least until the bottom falls out on this company.

1.Mesaba brought the contract
2.Pinnacle brought the money
3.Colgan brought growth
As was proposed earlier, and although I don't agree with most of this list, I will forgo that fight in order to reveal #4 everyone is forgetting.
4.Phil brought the impending bankruptcy.

The merger went fine from my seat (except for those poor XJ 00-04 hires, who have always been pooped on by this company) and I look towards the real problems ahead. Phil-do did nothing on his end to progress the merger and we will all pay for it during the bankruptcy. So I sit and patiently wait for the filing and then you will see me irate again. So perhaps I'm just pacing my anger for what will be the biggest challenge in our near future.
 
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