Do you have this routing on board?

M

Matt Atkinson

New Member
I'm based in the SoCal tower en-route area, so 90% of the time I just call up and ask for tower en-route to wherever I am going to, get my clearance and leave. But occasionally I have had to actually file; instructor demanded it for IFR cross country, stage check, check ride, or when its solid OVC003 outside my apartment and I want to get my plan filed earlier on the hope I can get IFR release sooner (does this actually work by the way?). So I open up my AF/D, flip around in the back find my route, then put it into ForeFlight on my iPad and file. Now, to give a thorough example, I want to fly from KSEE to KVNY. Its the SANN15 route (OCN V23 POPPR SMO125R SMO SMO317R CANOG.... PQ60).

When I call up clearance delivery, does it come up on their screen the exact route I want to fly? I assume it does because the last time this happened the attractive sounding lady up in the tower says to me "We've been expecting you... *pause for dramatic effect*... Mr Atkinson" followed by "Do you have the SANN15 routing onboard?"

What I would like know is, why do you ask if I have the routing on board? I filed that routing, didn't I? You have a copy of that route up there with you because if I had of said no, you would have read it out to me, or rather then gone with "Cleared as filed" (I tested that theory once). It bugs me that you ask, because by the time I have got to the airport, convinced my instructor that I checked the weather/NOTAMs/TFRs/extraterrestrial activity/etc for the flight, pre-flighted, fueled up, grabbed the ATIS, I have forgotten the "SANN15" bit (in my opinion the least important piece of information regarding my flight), and I then have to flip around in my AF/D again to confirm this.
 
I hate SoCal TEC routes. We flew from LGB to SAN one night, after having started the day about 18 hours earlier on the east coast. ATC issued us a route that would have made a NY controller shudder. We weren't comfortable accepting it, due to fatigue and unfamiliarity with the area, so we asked if there may be an alternate route. After about 5 minutes, we were given a STAR into SAN. It was the same route as the TEC, minus all the "ABC 123 radial to intercept the XYZ 345 radial..."
 
Nark said:
If you're flying out of SEE, I can verify that the lady up there is in fact attractive.
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Glad you answered, so I didn't have to ask... LOL

Sent from my DROIDX using Forum Runner
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
I hate SoCal TEC routes. We flew from LGB to SAN one night, after having started the day about 18 hours earlier on the east coast. ATC issued us a route that would have made a NY controller shudder. We weren't comfortable accepting it, due to fatigue and unfamiliarity with the area, so we asked if there may be an alternate route. After about 5 minutes, we were given a STAR into SAN. It was the same route as the TEC, minus all the "ABC 123 radial to intercept the XYZ 345 radial..."
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Taking off IFR from the LA area heading back to airports in San Diego county, they give long, circuitous routes as your clearance but as soon as you depart, SoCal vectors you around for a little and then have you proceeding direct to Seal Beach VOR from where you can join V23 on your way to San Diego. I've had that happen to me a couple of times departing Torrance and Long Beach heading back to SEE.
 
Nark said:
If you're flying out of SEE, I can verify that the lady up there is in fact attractive.
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Great. Now next time I land and hear her voice on tower/ground, I'll camp out at base of tower... Muahaha

TFaudree_ERAU said:
I hate SoCal TEC routes. We flew from LGB to SAN one night, after having started the day about 18 hours earlier on the east coast. ATC issued us a route that would have made a NY controller shudder. We weren't comfortable accepting it, due to fatigue and unfamiliarity with the area, so we asked if there may be an alternate route. After about 5 minutes, we were given a STAR into SAN. It was the same route as the TEC, minus all the "ABC 123 radial to intercept the XYZ 345 radial..."
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SMO to SEE is like that. After dep, runway heading to intercept LAX radial XYZ, right turn heading xxx then radar vectors SMO, SMO radial ABC POPPR, V23... That was my first trip after getting my instrument rating. After hearing all that I looked across to cheat from my instructors notepad, only to remember that the right seat was occupied only by my charts. I almost cried.
 
Until relatively recently all of my enroute tower time was SoCal TEC. It's a neat system, true, but I hate being read a route number, I'd rather be given the full route clearance since it is a short route 90% of the time.

CRQ delivery is the only facility that ever asked me "Do you have the route on board?" My response was..."Uh. Yes, we do. Request full route clearance." They read off "CRQ SANEsomething CMA," which, while accurate, didn't seem like enough of a route clearance for me. They eventually read me the full route. I think they're asking so they can save themselves a few breaths.

(For whatever reason they never assign the T-airways either. I forget what it is specifically but it's SLI323-POPPR-VNY168 or so...which is actually a GNSS T-route, which is never, ever assigned. I asked about it one day and TRACON said "We don't assign that." "OK" - I don't claim to understand this.)
 
and how is a controller who know WHO filed the route? if you read what you wrote you should be able to figure out why.
 
queeno said:
and how is a controller who know WHO filed the route? if you read what you wrote you should be able to figure out why.
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Huh? That kind of makes sense, and kind of doesn't. Ok sure, somebody else could have filed the route for me. But she can still see my files routing up there. And even if someone else filed that for me, I still have a nav log with each check point, I still have a chart with vague markings on where I am expecting to go until they start vectoring me around.

Also reading back on my original post, I guess the tone of sarcasm in my head was lost in translation through the keyboard.
 
Matt Atkinson said:
Don't question the SoCal. SoCal is God. Just go where the little voice inside your headset says. Or there will be penalties.
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I asked them for things all the time; sometimes I got them. They're great to you as long as you don't tie up their frequency unnecessarily. Don't ask "Beercan nine sixty five got a question" followed by your question, just ask for direct POPPR on the first try. :D
 
Matt Atkinson said:
Huh? That kind of makes sense, and kind of doesn't. Ok sure, somebody else could have filed the route for me. But she can still see my files routing up there. And even if someone else filed that for me, I still have a nav log with each check point, I still have a chart with vague markings on where I am expecting to go until they start vectoring me around.

Also reading back on my original post, I guess the tone of sarcasm in my head was lost in translation through the keyboard.
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90% vs 10% , 90% vs 10% , 90% vs 10% , 90% vs 10% ,still dont see it do you? sound like the controller was just trying to provide you good service.but its always easyer to just make smart ass comments about what you dont understand.
 
Matt Atkinson said:
I'm based in the SoCal tower en-route area, so 90% of the time I just call up and ask for tower en-route to wherever I am going to, get my clearance and leave. But occasionally I have had to actually file; instructor demanded it for IFR cross country, stage check, check ride, or when its solid OVC003 outside my apartment and I want to get my plan filed earlier on the hope I can get IFR release sooner (does this actually work by the way?). So I open up my AF/D, flip around in the back find my route, then put it into ForeFlight on my iPad and file. Now, to give a thorough example, I want to fly from KSEE to KVNY. Its the SANN15 route (OCN V23 POPPR SMO125R SMO SMO317R CANOG.... PQ60).

When I call up clearance delivery, does it come up on their screen the exact route I want to fly? I assume it does because the last time this happened the attractive sounding lady up in the tower says to me "We've been expecting you... *pause for dramatic effect*... Mr Atkinson" followed by "Do you have the SANN15 routing onboard?"

What I would like know is, why do you ask if I have the routing on board? I filed that routing, didn't I? You have a copy of that route up there with you because if I had of said no, you would have read it out to me, or rather then gone with "Cleared as filed" (I tested that theory once). It bugs me that you ask, because by the time I have got to the airport, convinced my instructor that I checked the weather/NOTAMs/TFRs/extraterrestrial activity/etc for the flight, pre-flighted, fueled up, grabbed the ATIS, I have forgotten the "SANN15" bit (in my opinion the least important piece of information regarding my flight), and I then have to flip around in my AF/D again to confirm this.
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Gigity.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I asked them for things all the time; sometimes I got them. They're great to you as long as you don't tie up their frequency unnecessarily.
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That's kinda hard when half of your chinese student's responses are "uhhhh...say again?"

We don't get on their good side too often
 
Matt Atkinson said:
Huh? That kind of makes sense, and kind of doesn't. Ok sure, somebody else could have filed the route for me. But she can still see my files routing up there. And even if someone else filed that for me, I still have a nav log with each check point, I still have a chart with vague markings on where I am expecting to go until they start vectoring me around.
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You do, but many people may not. I think that's what Queeno is getting at. Lots of pilots are lazy. They just file some route and then figure they can load it into the GPS or whatever they have on board once ATC gives it them. Or they just file direct and let the ATC computer figure it out. She was double checking that you had the route on board so that if she said "as filed" you'd know where to go.
 
BobDDuck said:
You do, but many people may not. I think that's what Queeno is getting at. Lots of pilots are lazy. They just file some route and then figure they can load it into the GPS or whatever they have on board once ATC gives it them. Or they just file direct and let the ATC computer figure it out. She was double checking that you had the route on board so that if she said "as filed" you'd know where to go.
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This

I honestly get giddy when I see a route that is wrong but a respectable attempt at filing a decent route. I actually appreciate the effort. If I had a dime for all the "I haz a GPS so I will file departure airport direct Initial approach fix for destination (even though it goes through 25 restricted areas) and get all shocked when ATC doesn't say as filed" I would give Uncle Sam the middle finger and go open a woodworking shop making overpriced salad bowls.
 
boondr said:
This

I honestly get giddy when I see a route that is wrong but a respectable attempt at filing a decent route. I actually appreciate the effort. If I had a dime for all the "I haz a GPS so I will file departure airport direct Initial approach fix for destination (even though it goes through 25 restricted areas) and get all shocked when ATC doesn't say as filed" I would give Uncle Sam the middle finger and go open a woodworking shop making overpriced salad bowls.
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Honest but unrelated question... Do you make those salad bowls now? I need to find a hand made gift (family rule this year) for somebody who loves cooking.
 
BobDDuck said:
Honest but unrelated question... Do you make those salad bowls now? I need to find a hand made gift (family rule this year) for somebody who loves cooking.
Click to expand...

I am without a workshop right now, so no. Can't wait to buy a house where I can have a full workshop, I already have most of the larger equipment but it is at my dads shop in NH.
 
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