Insurance Question

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I do know that and have alot of respect for Mark's opinion. That's part of the reason I asked if he knew of any such cases. I really find it odd that in all the articles on the need for CFI non-owner insurance I have never once seen reference to such a case. If it's such an issue surely there are examples.
I am not telling CFIs they do not need insurance. Every policy is different. I just have not seen a case of a CFI not actually being covered by the open pilot clause, unless they did not meet the requirements of the specific open pilot clause. In those cases the courts have made clear that their rulings in favor of the insurance companies are based upon the failure of the CFI to meet those minimums and not qualify as an insured pilot.

Why would there be easily accessible case law in a civil matter?

 

[Blackhawk]

Why would there be easily accessible case law in a civil matter?

With a subject like this and google?? You kidding? At least in articles on a subject that tell us it's a huge issue I'd think they would quote some examples. That is normally done in aviation law articles I read that tell us of issues. For example, I've read articles on insurance where we are warned that even if the CFI meets the Open Pilot clause there are cases where the policy is invalidated because he/she is giving instruction to someone who does NOT meet the clause. There are cases I've read that back this up. You are warned that if you rent an airplane an FBO's insurance can bring subrogation against you if you have an accident- most rental agreements state this very clearly and there are cases to back this up. If CFIs meeting the Open Pilot Clause yet facing subrogation after an accident is a huge issue... where are the cases?

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I thought you meant case, as in court case. Sorry. An aviation attorney has posted specific verbiage from an insurance provider's website, so I don't know what more you need.

This article has some specific clauses from a policy: http://www.avweb.com/news/insure/190338-1.html



Also, the American Eurocopter training agreement has a paragraph specifically requiring that the owner of the aircraft have the insurance carrier waive subrogation and provide evidence that they have.


http://www.eurocopterusa.com/training/Trng_Agmnt_Master.pdf

The Customer also agrees to have its liability insurance carrier include AE, its parent company, officers, directors,
employees and agents as additional insureds with respect to legal liability and to have its hull insurance carrier waive CUSTTRAIN/19-01-F26
2
rights of subrogation against AE, its parent company, shareholders, officers, directors, employees and agents. It is
agreed that the insurance mentioned above will be primary and non-contributory to any other insurance available to
AE as an insured or otherwise. The Customer will instruct his insurer to issue a Certificate of Insurance evidencing
the above before the training is to begin.


This also describes the process pretty clearly:

http://www.coolinglaw.com/Content/UploadedFiles/Documents/Articles/Insurance.pdf

 

[escapepilot]

I've looked, but haven't found, insurance that provides liability coverage for me acting as a CFI regardless of it the aircraft I'm providing instruction in is mine or belongs to a student. The non-owned policy will take care of one, and commercial is needed for the other. Anyone know of an all-in-one policy?

How difficult is it for an aircraft owner to get a waiver of subrogation for a CFI from his/her insurer?

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I've looked, but haven't found, insurance that provides liability coverage for me acting as a CFI regardless of it the aircraft I'm providing instruction in is mine or belongs to a student. The non-owned policy will take care of one, and commercial is needed for the other. Anyone know of an all-in-one policy?

I'd look closer at the commercial policy and talk to a sales agent about it. Whatever the standard policy says, I would be a bit surprised if an endorsement that covers teaching in another's aircraft was not readily available for (generally more expensive) policy that covers when teaching in your own.

How difficult is it for an aircraft owner to get a waiver of subrogation for a CFI from his/her insurer?

It depends on the company, but it's generally not that difficult. There are even companies that will do more than that, bearing in mind that even a waiver of subrogation offers a CFI only limited protection (from that insurance company only).

For example, the last time I did the insurance seminar, I came out with the blanket statement that "no owner policy covered the CFI." A hand went up in the audience immediately. It was an independent aviation insurance agent who informed me that, while it was a special endorsement, depended a lot on the company, and there was some cost involved, there were in fact special policy endorsements out there that would include coverage (protection) for the CFI, a waiver of the "no commercial" limitation and a waiver of subrogation so that the CFI was protected to the same extent as the owner of the aircraft.