United 93 - Accident Investigation

Ed Asner has always been one of the biggest liberal idiots of all time. A shame too that he is so dumb, because he was a good actor. The producers of "Loose Change" are some of most under-educated, young, liberal idiots of all time. Seriously, don't listen to idiots like this, and if you do, please, do not fly planes! A moron like Ed Asner and the producers of Loose Change are, at their best, clueless! If you believe what they say, then stay out of the air!

Otherwise, as to that video, you'll always find those of ignorance to support a conspiracy theory.
 
Really? They pretend they are seeking truth but ignore facts right and left. They complain they are persecuted and called names but have no problem calling anyone who disagrees "sheeple". They use one ad hominem or red herring after another, but they want us to follow their "logic". Sorry, I have learned that there is no arguing with that level of crazy. It is their type of thinking, that their opinion carries at least if not more weight than experts in whatever field they choose to go after, that has contributed to quite a few problems in this country, and we can't really afford many more problems. The lack of critical thought in the U.S. is greatly contributing to our inability to compete on the world stage. But, like I said, let them have their fun, no one has joined this thread to be swayed by their "evidence", so, no harm, no foul. Like I said early on, the only ones being fooled are the fools.

Are they?
 
Post #441 - Otherwise, as to that video, you'll always find those of ignorance to support a conspiracy theory.

Post #11 "So sad to see this thread here. This should be locked if not removed."

With over 10,000 views and hundreds of responses to this thread in just the past few days, new or returned posters may be unaware of some key developments that occurred earlier in the thread. . There should be no need to insult one another if participants will view the recent interviews with the 911 Commissioners who authored the 911 Report of the Official Story. . Below is a new interview video that has not been posted here before with: 911 Commission Chairman Lee Hamilton. .


Breaking News
(not extensively covered yet by the US Media) The Chairmen of the 911 Commission, and fellow Commissioners are changing their position on the reliability of the 911 Report they authored. . Because of new information they have received , they are now advising Americans to question the results of their study and what they've been told about 911. .


I'd like to invite some intelligent and polite debate over the altered, little publicized new positions of the 911 Commissioners. . I've received private emails from forum viewers who say that the Commissioner interview videos have altered their thinking, but they don't want to be ridiculed in this public debate. . So far, the few persistent posted defenders of the Official Story have not explained exactly why they dismiss the changing position of the 911 Commissioners. . Please explain in some detail. . I cannot figure out how to credibly argue support for the Official 911 Report story if the Commissioners who wrote it are now moving towards retracting their full support for it. . Thanks.


911 Commissioner Max Cleland says: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up"

9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says:
"public opinion was manipulated", "the Commission was set up to fail, people should keep asking questions and the 9/11 debate should continue"

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeWDc4kRd90&feature=related
If this YouTube link fails to activate through JC, please paste it into your address bar . . The link is good.


Additional Videos covering the changing position of 911 Commissioners:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0LBARGBupM&feature=related . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtQY4u8gHTo

More videos of Federal Officials and Commissioners who've changed their position are available upon request.
 
So far, the few persistent posted defenders of the Official Story have not explained exactly why they dismiss the changing position of the 911 Commissioners. . Please explain in some detail. . I cannot figure out how to credibly argue support for the Official 911 Report story if the Commissioners who wrote it are now moving towards retracting their full support for it. . Thanks.


You see this is the thing I don't get. Why do some people feel if you don't believe that 9/11 was a inside job then some how you must believe 100% of the official story and the 9/11 report. My guess is you can't find more then a handful of people who believe the report is 100% right. The 9/11 report was and is today very much about politics don't kid yourself and to thinking it is anything more then politics and I think most people know that.
 
You see this is the thing I don't get. Why do some people feel if you don't believe that 9/11 was a inside job then some how you must believe 100% of the official story and the 9/11 report.

No one feels that way, it's just the straw man many will throw out there to try to weaken their opponents position. The reason no one in this thread hasn't addressed Qutch's question isn't because people in the thread are ignoring the "changing position of the 911 commissioners", it's because he addressed the question to people that don't exist in this thread.
 
You see this is the thing I don't get. Why do some people feel if you don't believe that 9/11 was a inside job then some how you must believe 100% of the official story and the 9/11 report. My guess is you can't find more then a handful of people who believe the report is 100% right. The 9/11 report was and is today very much about politics don't kid yourself and to thinking it is anything more then politics and I think most people know that.

O.K. Good. Its politics. . Maybe so. . I suppose there could be a conspiracy among some persons, for political reasons, to falsely discredit the Report, if that is what you are suggesting. . It's happened in the past, so sure, its possible.

1) However, One Commission Chairman is Republican. . One Chairman is a Democrat. . Both are retracting their support for the study (see the 2nd video I provided). . Both, joined by other Commissioners say that Administration Officials and Military officers lied to them during the hearings. . And now they are not sure what really happened. . They are joined by Commission Legal Counsel John Farmer who backs them all up. . Do you have any evidence that this is merely political? Can you tell us what party is at fault? . You see, with Commissioners from both parties withdrawing support for their findings, which party, and what politics do we point to in support of your theory? http://www.salem-news.com/articles/september112009/911_truth_9-11-09.php

2) Lets just pretend that we all agree here that the turmoil among the Commissioners is merely political, nothing more (your theory). . If so, when did this hand picked bi-partisan group of Commissioners get so political that we suddenly can't trust them? . They wrote the report that posters here are trying to defend. . At what point did the Commissioners start letting politics govern their opinions and actions. . Did it begin when they were writing the Report that posters are defending, or did they spin out of control after report completion? Which part of what these suddenly "highly partisan politcal operatives" have told us can we trust? Which part should we reject? . You say they cannot be trusted? O.K. That's possible. . But were they being untruthful then or now? It does not seem to me like we can defend the integrity of their judgement with regards to their initial Report, and then suddenly declare them to be political hacks when they update their findings.

You see Gonzo, I'm not alleging that there was an inside job. . I'm not alleging anything .. I don't know what happened. . And I'll concede, just for the sake of argument here, that these Commissioners make statements based upon political considerations, not facts. . O.K.? But if I accept your theory, doesn't that take me right back to Square 1? Who can I trust, and what really happened on 911?

I don't think many Americans like the idea of accepting any story other than the "Official Story" since it largely exonerates the American people and their government officials of intentional wrongdoing. . I certainly wanted to accept the story. . My question though is - how do I defend a Report that's own authors say they were wrong, and we should now question everything? How do I defend a Report that's authors (using your theory if I understand it correctly), were reliable when they wrote the Report, but cannot be trusted now?
 
No one feels that way, it's just the straw man many will throw out there to try to weaken their opponents position. The reason no one in this thread hasn't addressed Qutch's question isn't because people in the thread are ignoring the "changing position of the 911 commissioners", it's because he addressed the question to people that don't exist in this thread.

I'm confused now, I was lead to believe that any one who questions the report (doesn't believe it 100%) is a "conspiracy nut job." is this true?
 
I'm confused now, I was lead to believe that any one who questions the report (doesn't believe it 100%) is a "conspiracy nut job." is this true?
Anyone? No. I suppose that depends on the questions they ask, but anyone who says "just questioning the report means you are a nutjob" is most likely a nutjob them-self.
 
O.K. Good. Its politics. . Maybe so. . I suppose there could be a conspiracy among some persons, for political reasons, to falsely discredit the Report, if that is what you are suggesting. . It's happened in the past, so sure, its possible.

NO that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is everything in DC is about politics.



I don't think many Americans like the idea of accepting any story other than the "Official Story" since it largely exonerates the American people and their government officials of intentional wrongdoing. . I certainly wanted to accept the story. . My question though is - how do I defend a Report that's own authors say they were wrong, and we should now question everything? How do I defend a Report that's authors (using your theory if I understand it correctly), were reliable when they wrote the Report, but cannot be trusted now?

How does not accepting the 9/11 report equal wrongdoing?
Also were did I say the commissioners could not be trusted?
 
Anyone? No. I suppose that depends on the questions they ask, but anyone who says "just questioning the report means you are a nutjob" is most likely a nutjob them-self.

O.K. Darren. . Fair enough. . I'll go with that. .

I don't know what happened in this case since the classified documents are many years away from release, and death bed disclosures may be some time off. . It just seems that a few things don't add up, and with the Commissioners themselves already publicly backing away from their own report and urging Americans to question this thing, we shouldn't feel ashamed just for asking questions. . Hopefully we can agree on that.

We went to war over the sinking of the Maine. . Many, many years later the Gov says they got it wrong, the sinking wasn't an act of war against the U.S. after all. . They should have asked more questions then. .
 
We went to war over the sinking of the Maine. . Many, many years later the Gov says they got it wrong, the sinking wasn't an act of war against the U.S. after all. . They should have asked more questions then. .

There's a fair amount of reasonable doubt that the second Tonkin Gulf attack which led to the Tonkin Gulf Resolution by Congress, ever even occurred.
 
....What I am saying is everything in DC is about politics.

Also were did I say the commissioners could not be trusted?

Well, maybe I misunderstood. . When blue-ribbon bi-partisan commissions are selected and appointed by elected officials, they usually make a speech explaining to the public that the findings of that commission can be relied upon because they will be thorough, complete, will report the facts, and will be bi-partisan. . Now, you're right, that doesn't mean all politics disappears. . But in the hope of persuading the public to accept the commission's findings, it does imply that the bi-partisan balance of the commission will ensure that the study is thorough and governed by the facts, not by partisan politics. .

So when you said "don't kid yourself and to thinking it is anything more then politics ...." I assumed you meant that the Report conclusions were not governed purely by the "facts", but by things other than facts, (like politics). Since the Commissioners apparently published a Report governed not by "anything more than politics" I just assumed that you too must have some reservations regarding the purely factual basis of the 911 Report. . So if we were 'trusting' the Commissioners to put out a purely factual Report, and you think it was governed by politics, then I assumed that you had doubts about 'trusting' the Commissioners to stick to the facts. . If that is in error, and you do "trust" the Commissioners, I stand corrected. .

Now that we agree that we can "trust" the Commissioners, should we also move to agree that.......we can "trust" their claim that we cannot trust their Report? Seems to me that we have to take a position somewhere on this "trust" thing. . We can't straddle the fence all day. . Or perhaps we can at least agree with Darren that its OK to ask a few questions, and with MikeD that there might be "reasonable doubt" based on past US history. . The 911 Commissioners, joined by many other public officials, seem to think so. .

Qutch
 
For anyone interested in learning about the breakdown in intelligence prior to 9/11? There was a Frontline episode last night that featured an interview with a former FBI agent named Ali Soufan. Its probably one of the most interesting and informative programs Ive seen about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Soufan
 
I think the commissioners of the 9/11 report did the best job they could have with the info they had.
Do I think they had all the info they needed to do their job? NO
Do I think even if they had all available info they could put together a 100% correct report? NO
There are to may unknowns from that day to ever be 100% sure they are 100% right. Many eyewitness have died and many will not talk.
 
I think the commissioners of the 9/11 report did the best job they could have with the info they had.
Do I think they had all the info they needed to do their job? NO
Do I think even if they had all available info they could put together a 100% correct report? NO
There are to may unknowns from that day to ever be 100% sure they are 100% right. Many eyewitness have died and many will not talk.

O.K. . I'll go with that. . That's fair. .

So with that in mind, hambone, jet, staledog, and others have a few questions. . Since they are in distinguished company, I'd like them to be able to ask those questions. . Hopefully we can continue a polite discussion on 911. .


Thanks

Qutch
 
I suppose that depends on the questions they ask, but anyone who says "just questioning the report means you are a nutjob" is most likely a nutjob them-self.

Amazing. The commissioners, Darrenf, Qutch, Gonzo and even a moderator finally in agreement on something? And no new posters stepping in to protest it? Great. There are questions to be asked, and we get to ask them. Making progress. How did that happen?

So Qutch, when are you going to post the new Operation Northwoods files? Me and the guys I work with are anxious to tear into them. All we can find ourselves on the net is 60s stuff.
 
Amazing. The commissioners, Darrenf, Qutch, Gonzo and even a moderator finally in agreement on something? And no new posters stepping in to protest it? Great. There are questions to be asked, and we get to ask them. Making progress. How did that happen?

So Qutch, when are you going to post the new Operation Northwoods files? Me and the guys I work with are anxious to tear into them. All we can find ourselves on the net is 60s stuff.

That's pretty much the same thing I was thinking! Although I haven't said anything in a while, because I didn't really have much else to say, and don't really have anymore questions at the moment.

But I do know Qutch is still sitting on some other interesting stuff that I'd like to see (which you mentioned above).

I say let's see it.
 
O.K. . I'll go with that. . That's fair. .

So with that in mind, hambone, jet, staledog, and others have a few questions. . Since they are in distinguished company, I'd like them to be able to ask those questions. . Hopefully we can continue a polite discussion on 911. .


Thanks

Qutch

Why? The sad fact is most of the questions they have, can't be answered.
 
.

"""So with that in mind, hambone, jet, staledog, and others have a few questions. . Since they are in distinguished company, I'd like them to be able to ask those questions. . Hopefully we can continue a polite discussion on 911. .""" Qutch


Why? The sad fact is most of the questions they have, can't be answered.

.

Gee, didn't someone tell the Wright Brothers that?. I'm sure glad they didn't listen. . I really like to fly.

.
 
Back
Top