United 93 - Accident Investigation

flyingbum said:
Don't forget about the thousands of first responders that are being denied medical care. They are dying from toxic dust from the WTC collapse. We have the money to fight multiple wars and no money to provide heath care to the 9/11 first responders. Firefighters, police, medical responders etc etc... The real bummer is they are not allowed to be present at the 10 year ceremony. Probably because over 50% of them are "truthers". We easily respect the already dead, how about some respect for those who are still suffering and dying.
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Actually they aren't dying any more than a normal population would...according to a govt sponsored study. They are actually slightly healthier.
 
pullup said:
Actually they aren't dying any more than a normal population would...according to a govt sponsored study. They are actually slightly healthier.
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Must have been the same gov. docs who said that radiated water was healthy.
 
To the people that feel there's a conspiracy. Seriously, get over it or you're going to die mad. You will never, ever ever ever find answers or peace. If it's that vast of a conspiracy, the money and the power behind it will never relinquish information or admit anything.

Enjoy the day, move forward and good grief, lighten up.

We're all going to die, it's how happy you are in-between that matters.
 
This may be totally wrong. It probably isn't, but I will leave the door open that it could be.

I've noticed that most conspiracy people are deeply pessimistic. They also have some kind of strange, inner fear that is present. I think the randomness if life is a scary thing for them. There is NO WAY 19 guys backed by a nomad in a cave in Afghanistan could bring down the WTC - it must be some kind of deeper plot. There is NO WAY a loner, misfit assasin could blow the Presidents head off...had to be CIA guys on the grassy knoll. And on and on and on. Couple this pessimism and paranoia/fear with mistakes or things missed in an investigation and all of a sudden these very human characteristics take on a dark and sinister purpose.

My answer? Government hit squads to kill these bozos.
 
Doug Taylor said:
To the people that feel there's a conspiracy. Seriously, get over it or you're going to die mad. You will never, ever ever ever find answers or peace. If it's that vast of a conspiracy, the money and the power behind it will never relinquish information or admit anything.

Enjoy the day, move forward and good grief, lighten up.

We're all going to die, it's how happy you are in-between that matters.
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I think that's a valid philosophy Doug. . But some people just can't be happy if they suspect that their own government would consider killing them (or clearing a path for others to kill them). . It would be easier for us to dismiss them all as crackpots if the US Government hadn't planned and executed "false flag" operations and similar schemes in the past. I spent enough time in military R&D, the Pentagon and on Capital Hill to casually dismiss the possibility that the question might be worth asking.

I keep waiting for someone to mention the now declassified 1960s Operation Northwoods. Among the schemes proposed by the Joint Chiefs, were to set off bombs in the United States, blowing up their own ships with Navy personnel on board, and flying a civilian jet liner by remote control that they would shoot down with CIA flown fighters. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1 This one can no longer be dismissed as a conspiracy theory, except by those who don't know their history. . Declassified operations like Northwoods, MKULTRA and Midnight Climax (just to name a few) make it tough for us to ridicule those who want to ask these questions about 911. . I hope they're wrong also. . However, I just saw enough in my military career, and have read enough declassified documents, to prevent me from completely dismissing their questions as lunacy. . I think, if respectful, they should be allowed to ask their questions and make their points without being ridiculed. . We might learn something. . But that's just me.
 
Considering we're an aviation website, you're not going to find any answers here, that's the primary point.

I just had someone in my family die that was about a year older than I was. No need for condolences because she had a lot of stuff going on and certain parts of the event were clearly avoidable.

BUT!

Say that I knew I could mysteriously croak at any moment starting from now until X. Would I look back from the pearly gates and marvel at my wonderful memories of suspicion, anger and mistrust? Or would I have better memories if I spread love, kindness and helped people out when possible?

There are loads and loads of conspiracies that I could get bent out of shape about, especially having parents that witnessed the Jim Crow and civil rights era first hand, but besides taking the lessons from the past, why would I spend a minute concerned about planned demolitions, missile-firing 757's and the Bildeberg's evacuating all of ZEE GOLDDDDDZ out of tower 12 hours before the attack?

It's sunny. I have a fresh beer and I'm BBQ'ing.

Choices, choices... :)
 
Doug Taylor said:
Say that I knew I could mysteriously croak at any moment starting from now until X. Would I look back from the pearly gates and marvel at my wonderful memories of suspicion, anger and mistrust? Or would I have better memories if I spread love, kindness and helped people out when possible?

There are loads and loads of conspiracies that I could get bent out of shape about, especially having parents that witnessed the Jim Crow and civil rights era first hand, but besides taking the lessons from the past, why would I spend a minute concerned about planned demolitions, missile-firing 757's and the Bildeberg's evacuating all of ZEE GOLDDDDDZ out of tower 12 hours before the attack?

It's sunny. I have a fresh beer and I'm BBQ'ing.

Choices, choices... :)
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That is what it's ALL about.

There will always be bad, evil people in the world who are set on hurting others. This is a fact that will not change. We can not possibly make the world a "perfect", or "fair" place where the playing field is level for everyone. At some point in our lives, we're all going to get screwed. Stuff will happen, companies will lose your background check information, you'll get put in class 4 weeks later than you were "supposed" to be, your airline will buy another airline and you'll end up 10 days junior to all the other people at that airline because you were in class 4 weeks later than you were supposed to be, and on a stunningly beautiful September day, when everything seems right with the world, 19 hijackers might use 2 of your airplanes to kill 17 of your co-workers, along with several thousand other people, and the next thing you know you're on the street with no job, you've lost your apartment because your roommate got knocked up by some corporate guy in OMA and he's moving in because of the baby... and you know what you do? You deal with it and move forward. You know why? Because what's the alternative?! To get mad? What good does that do? It makes YOU miserable, and your close friends & family suffer because of it. Semper Ante, my friends. Forward, always forward. We're here ONCE!! Don't get mired down in conspiracy theories and stuff that sucks the life out of you without really accomplishing anything. We could all die tomorrow doing any common thing in our lives.. we could get in a car wreck, we could be blown up in a natural gas explosion, we could choke on our dinner, we could come down with some freakish disease or have a brain aneurism. Live every day to LIVE it! Because one day, it WILL be our last.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Considering we're an aviation website, you're not going to find any answers here, that's the primary point.
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Well, its your website Doug, so I can't argue with you with regard to the purpose of the website. . You can shut down the thread if you decide to. . But your site is a great learning tool, with some intelligent posters who often come through with some pretty amazing data and insights.. I think that if the discourse here takes a more productive (and civil) turn we might get some answers to some aviation related questions . . Right now, I'm mystified by the number of posters who claim they have no interest in "conspiracy theories", but who are spending enormous amounts of time and effort here trying to intimidate and ridicule people from asking their questions. . If they're not interested, why all the interest ? Usually people ignore threads they have no interest in. . But not this one. . This one is unique. . In fact, counting up the posted replies, it looks to me like the posters who claim NOT to be interested in any 911 related questions that deviate from the Official Report vastly outnumber the posters who ARE interested. . That's a curious statistic, and one that gets the aviation psychology, human factors science part of me especially interested. . Why so much rabid interest in a subject that these guys claim to have no interest in? And why aren't the people who are NOT interested in this thread out barbequing, instead of glued to their computers following this thread thinking up more reasons why no one should ask questions?

WacoFan said:
I've noticed that most conspiracy people are deeply pessimistic. They also have some kind of strange, inner fear that is present..... My answer? Government hit squads to kill these bozos.
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Yep. . This thread is plenty interesting. . However, can we steer this thread back to an intelligent discourse regarding the aviation related question, i.e., terrorism's impacts on aviation and the reliability of Government reports and conclusions? Or must we wade through the deluge of posters demanding that these guys not be permitted to ask their polite questions ? I have reason to believe that something new, aviation related, and productive may come out of this thread. . But only if the undiplomatic flame war comes to a halt. . When they're done posting, then we can go drink our beers and wait for death. . What do you say? It's your website.
 
I still remember waking up for classes early that day in Phoenix. And on all the news stations was the footage of the first tower after it had been hit. All of the stations had been reporting that they had heard it was a plane. I remember being fascinated, just thinking it was pretty crazy that a plane flew into a building. Then I remember when I saw the second plane fly into the other tower, it was the first real "WTF!" moment I'd really experienced. Obviously it wasn't just some crazy accident anymore, I mean, TWO planes flew into skyscrapers in NYC on the same day. It was obviously some kind of attack.

I remember watching people jumping to their deaths; watching the camera tilt down, it seemed so far to fall. Like they were free falling forever, never going to hit the ground. How bad was it on their floors when jumping was a better alternative than trying to escape from within? I remember the "OMG" feeling I had after hearing about a plane crashing into the Pentagon. Feeling like the world was collapsing and everybody had gone crazy. How could people have gone so crazy that they would do this to other people?

When the towers collapsed, I really did feel vulnerable. Even being thousands of miles away, I felt scared. I remember the giant clouds of dust and debris engulfing the city. It wasn't anything like how falling skyscrapers looked in the movies, it was far worse. Much, much messier. Paper, ash and dust, all raining down.

I remember finding a link to an online forum where somebody had hinted on a huge attack on September 1, 2001, also 9/1/1. Reading the posts as he threatened people about an attack on America. Then after 9/1/1 came and went and nothing happened, everybody mocked him. Then once 9/11/01 happened, the forums went crazy. I never discovered if this was a true web forum or some crazy hoax.

I was only twenty at the time, the whole thing was a real eye opener. The Diamondbacks went to the world series that year and I remember being scared of another attack. Just waiting and wondering when the next attack would come. I can only imagine how scary it would have been if I had actually been a New Yorker. Needless to say, I've done a lot of growing up in the last ten years. Married, career and a house.

To anybody that lost a loved one, a colleague or a friend that day, my heart still goes out to you.

I generally find conspiracy theories to be entertaining, much the same way I find ghost stories, big foot stories and alien abduction stories to be fairly amusing. For some reason I just find the 9/11 conspiracy theories to be taboo.

If you want to blame the government for something, blame it for this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
and this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USDebt.png
 
flyingbum said:
Must have been the same gov. docs who said that radiated water was healthy.
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So we can trust the govt in the 9/11 reports but not trust them on the health reports? I don't care one way or the other but pick a side.

It also could be a conspiracy (not demo-ing the buildings etc) with one guy running the operation from within. Who's to say the CIA director didn't collaborate with Osama? It would only take one man from our end.



Midnight Climax? Best name ever, I would promote that person sheerly off of the ingenuity of that name.
 
I have been avoiding this thread and now that I finally did its to damn stupid to read.... So I will write this. Oh at a glance on this page the best thing I saw was the Godfather quote... Thanks. I laughed
 
Maybe things would have gone differently if the shoot down order and control over NORAD wasn't changed 3 months before 9/11. Bush could have been more knowledgeable since he did say that he never could have imagined terrorist flying planes into the WTT or the pentagon yet NORAD had been conducting exercises for 2 years prior to 9/11 preparing for exactly such an event. Unfortunately, we were caught with our pants down on the morning of 9/11 since it was one of the busiest training days in the history of the military with: operation northern vigilance, biowarfare exercise tripod II, operation vigilant guardian, operation northern guardian and peration vigilant warrior. Oh well, we can't cry over spilled milk.
 
flyingbum said:
Don't forget about the thousands of first responders that are being denied medical care. They are dying from toxic dust from the WTC collapse. We have the money to fight multiple wars and no money to provide heath care to the 9/11 first responders. Firefighters, police, medical responders etc etc... The real bummer is they are not allowed to be present at the 10 year ceremony. Probably because over 50% of them are "truthers". We easily respect the already dead, how about some respect for those who are still suffering and dying.
Click to expand...

Do you know why they weren't invited to the event? Im guessing probably not so here yah go. Due to the space restrictions caused by the ongoing construction they weren't able to accommodate everyone outside of the dead victims families. The city will host a separate event at the memorial at a later date for the first responders.
 
pullup said:
So we can trust the govt in the 9/11 reports but not trust them on the health reports? I don't care one way or the other but pick a side.

It also could be a conspiracy (not demo-ing the buildings etc) with one guy running the operation from within. Who's to say the CIA director didn't collaborate with Osama? It would only take one man from our end.



Midnight Climax? Best name ever, I would promote that person sheerly off of the ingenuity of that name.
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I think you misunderstood me. I'll clarify. I don't believe anything the gubbament tells me. With a track record like theirs, only a fool would believe the nonsense they incoherently spat. I usually attribute it to being a compulsive liar, but then I recall that they are complete lunatics. So I might try to classify them as pathological liars. Find a coin, flip it, it's one of the two.
 
SeanD said:
Do you know why they weren't invited to the event? Im guessing probably not so here yah go. Due to the space restrictions caused by the ongoing construction they weren't able to accommodate everyone outside of the dead victims families. The city will host a separate event at the memorial at a later date for the first responders.
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I'm glad you brought that up. And which event will be getting airtime? Probably just the propaganda one, not the one that the presstitutes refuse to talk about.
 
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