Buying a plane (under 60k)

[fholbert]

Just remember an Arrow is a trainer, the only reason it's complex is for flight training. Secondly, because it's a trainer aircraft it's in demand and the price will be higher.

Think out of the (flight school) box and you'll get more bang for the buck. Prices are really low right now and I wish I was buying. It's a buyers market, pay no attention to the asking price.

Here's a 160 knot Bellanca Viking, $45,000 622 SMOH.

Here is a $59,000 version with an IFR GPS

And a 170 knot $98,000 one.

 

[Nihon_Ni]

Is it better to look for one with a great Panel (430W / 530W, etc...) and less TBO or better engine and a panel I may have to put money into?

My thought would be buy the panel I want as I would get less of a return replacing a GPS / Radio stack* than taking a 2400 hour engine back to new. Your experience?

My experience has been the same. When looking at return on avionics, you can figure a 50% depreciation in the first 3-5 yrs, GPSs are even faster. And all the labor to uninstall whatever was there and install the new gizmo is immediately depreciated. Engines, on the other hand, more-or-less depreciate on a straight line, at least for the first half of its TBO. If you have to choose avionics or engine, go for the panel. (BTW, don't forget to include the price of the 28-day database updates in all those fancy "dubyas" you're considering, otherwise it's a pretty fancy comm radio.)

I hear ya. Consider that I will have the instrument ticket and closer to 185 hours by the time I pull trigger (next couple months). Does that help? Plus 10 hours in the club arrow.

Unless someone here is in the insurance industry, it's all speculation. Why not just call one of the name brand aviation insurance agents and tell them what you're thinking and see what they have to say?

Good luck with your purchase!

 

[Mark815]

I was climbing out in IMC at Vy in an Arrow with an auto-extender and it randomly decided to drop the gear. The system is definitely not perfect.

It's probably because you didn't have the override on, and were climbing at a speed below where the auto-extend drops the gear. This used to happen all the time on go arounds, we would raise the gear lever, but nothing would happen because the auto-extend wouldn't let the gear up until we got to a certain speed.

 

[mjg407]

I've owned two Grumman Cheetah's. Comfortably fit four, I've easliy fit my wife and daughter for trips from SEA to CIC as well as fold down the rear seats and put two kennels in the back for a cat and dog on a separate trip. Simple engine, simple design. Flys beautifully. I'm also tentatively selling mine when I get back from Afghanistan.

Michael

 

[trafficinsight]

It's probably because you didn't have the override on, and were climbing at a speed below where the auto-extend drops the gear. This used to happen all the time on go arounds, we would raise the gear lever, but nothing would happen because the auto-extend wouldn't let the gear up until we got to a certain speed.

The auto extension system has to be adjusted from time to time, it involves removing the rear seat and taking a mechanic flying with you


Sent from 1865 by telegraph....

 

[ctab5060X]

Here's a 160 knot Bellanca Viking, $45,000 622 SMOH.

Here is a $59,000 version with an IFR GPS

And a 170 knot $98,000 one.

Too bad I'm not quite ready to purchase a single engine IFR airplane yet.

 

[ctab5060X]

There is a pitot-looking tube on the side of the fuselage for the auto-extender. If the pressure drops below the design threshold, the gear will extend.

Ah yes... I remember now. How could I forget the day we sucked an insect into that tube and couldn't retract the gear!

 

[mshunter]

Just remember an Arrow is a trainer, the only reason it's complex is for flight training. Secondly, because it's a trainer aircraft it's in demand and the price will be higher.

Think out of the (flight school) box and you'll get more bang for the buck. Prices are really low right now and I wish I was buying. It's a buyers market, pay no attention to the asking price.

Here's a 160 knot Bellanca Viking, $45,000 622 SMOH.

Here is a $59,000 version with an IFR GPS

And a 170 knot $98,000 one.

How do the later ones hold up with the fiberglass fuse covering? Personally, I love the look and sound of Vikings. I, like you, think that they are one of the most undervalued airplanes out there. I don't think there is an airplane out there with the mission that these accomplish that can do it for the cost.

 

[fholbert]

How do the later ones hold up with the fiberglass fuse covering?

No such thing. The later model ones (about 1998) went from an io520 to a io550. In 2005 (pictured) the main doors were re-designed. That's the only changes in the last 30 years other than the radio stack.

 

[mshunter]

No such thing. The later model ones (about 1998) went from an io520 to a io550. In 2005 the main doors were re-designed. That's the only changes in the last 30 years other than the radio stack.

I thought they skinned the late madels ones in Fiberglass?

 

[fholbert]

I thought they skinned the late madels ones in Fiberglass?

That sounds more like the 1974 Bellanca SkyRocket. I think this is the only one ever made. SEVERAL have copied this design.

Correction, they made at least two of them.

 

[jskibo]

Sounds like you are flying out of 35D. Ask JB over there if he knows of anything for sale.

I am out of there. Just got done shooting approaches into KGRR with Melissa. Nothing on the board interests me but I'll ask next time I'm there, only Matt in today.


That Bellanca is a nice looking bird.

Soft market now is nice, but is there a "bluebook" of sorts for aircraft, or just base offers on pre inspection and what I think the seller will bite on?

 

[mshunter]

That sounds more like the 1974 Bellanca SkyRocket. I think this is the only one ever made. SEVERAL have copied this design.

Correction, they made at least two of them.

That thing looks awesome!

 

[loubetti]

Nope, no fiberglass!

Vikings are nice planes, but there is a reason that you can pick them up inexpensively. First, unless your climatic conditions are right, they should live in a hangar. At an airport like CDW in NJ, we're talking $257 a month outside and $900 in a T-hangar. Second, 160 kts on 300HP? Put 300HP in a Mooney and see how fast you go (you'll leave 200 knots well behind you). Third, the interior is not exactly roomy, and useful load is nothing to brag about. You will also need a mechanic experienced in working with wood and fabric.

I mean no disrespect to Frank, who I miss at the AOPA forums, but even a Cessna 210 can park outside, has a roomier interior with six seats, has 300HP, can do 160 knots, and has a useful load (in our case) of almost 1600 lbs. That's not Bellanca territory. Sadly, as beautiful as a Bellanca Viking it, it has never been a roomy or efficient aircraft. The price of used ones reflects that.

 

[trafficinsight]

Nope, no fiberglass!

Vikings are nice planes, but there is a reason that you can pick them up inexpensively. First, unless your climatic conditions are right, they should live in a hangar. At an airport like CDW in NJ, we're talking $257 a month outside and $900 in a T-hangar. Second, 160 kts on 300HP? Put 300HP in a Mooney and see how fast you go (you'll leave 200 knots well behind you). Third, the interior is not exactly roomy, and useful load is nothing to brag about. You will also need a mechanic experienced in working with wood and fabric.

I mean no disrespect to Frank, who I miss at the AOPA forums, but even a Cessna 210 can park outside, has a roomier interior with six seats, has 300HP, can do 160 knots, and has a useful load (in our case) of almost 1600 lbs. That's not Bellanca territory. Sadly, as beautiful as a Bellanca Viking it, it has never been a roomy or efficient aircraft. The price of used ones reflects that.

In all fairness a Mooney isn't exactly palatial inside

I like the viking, it has class, but wood and fabric is not for the faint of heart.

 

[fholbert]

• Bellanca's melt in the rain faster than origami. <rolling eyes>
• But Mooney never did and it would still handle like a pig.
• Saying a 210 is better because it hauls 6 people is like saying your mini van is better than my Corvette.
• Inside a BSV is bigger than a Mooney, smaller than a Cessna. I'm 6'3 250 lbs and I fit just fine.
• Every vehicle I've owned has been stored in a hangar or garage. Yes even my co-owned Warrior and Archer. Moot point.
• Wood and fabric mechanic? Why, when was the last you repaired your wing? However most areas have them.
• I just remembered why I left the AOPA board.

And lastly let's not forget the title of the thread.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I just remembered why I left the AOPA board.
And lastly let's not forget the title of the thread.

Both of those points are valid. I've got the 210 crack-head on the ignore list over on AOPA, because literally at times nothing but garbage comes from posts of theirs.

Long story short, while I've never flown a Super Viking, I think it's a great airplane, as long as one realizes what it is before they jump into ownership of one.

 

[jskibo]

All great responses and I appreciate the input.

Any reason to consider the Archer? Or if I go fixed am I just better off in the Dakota range?

Any autopilot systems better than others? Any APs that are MX nightmares?

I've narrowed it down a bit, it won't be a twin this time around. Still trying to decide between fixed or retract. Very interested in something that climbs and cruises faster than the warrior.

 

[fholbert]

A Archer is a good airplane. A Dakota is better but hard to find. Stay away from the Turbo Dakota's. A working AP is the best one.

 

[trafficinsight]

The archer will fly pretty much exactly like a warrior, it'll just carry a bit more.