SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I'd go for a Mooney, either a M20F or M20J. The gear, especially Johnson bar ones, are very reliable.
Buying a plane (under 60k)
- Thread starter jskibo
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beasly
Well-Known Member
Especially when you cut power with point A being the sky and point B being the ground. Darn thing sinks like a brick. Nice a.c. though once you get used to it.
loubetti
Pays to fly
Some good advice above, however, twins will eat you alive, despite what others might say. Sure, you can buy some twins for $60K, but what will be your ownership cost after the first annual, unless you find a gem that the owner wants to get rid of?
The Arrow II is a nice plane, but is a slug speed-wise, but it is RG. The 235 / Dakota is as fast, carries more, but burns more fuel. Dakotas will do 140 knots, 235s about 135 (owned them both). Figure that a 235 has a useful (84 gal fuel over 4 tanks) of around 1350-1400, a Dakota (74 gal fuel over 2 tanks), around 1230. An arrow will not compete. However, the Arrow will burn less less fuel. If getting an Arrow I would get an Arrow III with the tapered wing.
You're talking $60K here, and I have to consider that you buy the right bird, do a through pre-buy, and it does not eat you alive after purchase. Again, forget twins!
A Mooney F or J is nice, but good luck finding a nice J for $60K, more likely an F.
These days, ya' never know what plane with what owner you will find that is priced right.
Also, don't discount an earlier Cessna 210. You can get some for $60K or less, and if they have been maintained, you'll have one helluva bird on your hands. Far better than any Arrow or 235/236 or Mooney! A Cessna 210D or newer should be looked at. Perhaps one such as this:
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-210/1964-CESSNA-210/1189477.htm?
Just to stress, forget about the asking price. Check the bird out and make an offer!
The Arrow II is a nice plane, but is a slug speed-wise, but it is RG. The 235 / Dakota is as fast, carries more, but burns more fuel. Dakotas will do 140 knots, 235s about 135 (owned them both). Figure that a 235 has a useful (84 gal fuel over 4 tanks) of around 1350-1400, a Dakota (74 gal fuel over 2 tanks), around 1230. An arrow will not compete. However, the Arrow will burn less less fuel. If getting an Arrow I would get an Arrow III with the tapered wing.
You're talking $60K here, and I have to consider that you buy the right bird, do a through pre-buy, and it does not eat you alive after purchase. Again, forget twins!
A Mooney F or J is nice, but good luck finding a nice J for $60K, more likely an F.
These days, ya' never know what plane with what owner you will find that is priced right.
Also, don't discount an earlier Cessna 210. You can get some for $60K or less, and if they have been maintained, you'll have one helluva bird on your hands. Far better than any Arrow or 235/236 or Mooney! A Cessna 210D or newer should be looked at. Perhaps one such as this:
http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/CESSNA-210/1964-CESSNA-210/1189477.htm?
Just to stress, forget about the asking price. Check the bird out and make an offer!
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
There are 180 and 200hp Arrow I's, the 5 inch fuselage stretch and longer wings/stabilator makes it an Arrow II.
The arrow II's have 50lbs more useful load but most of that is taken up by the extra structure.
I may be off on the weights by a bit, it's been a while since I've flown one, I'll have to look at our Arrows, we have a I and a II. I could swear that the useful load is right around 1200lbs though. Obviously that might vary by a couple hundred pounds based on what's installed and how long it's been since it was cleaned in the nether areas
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Honestly, with 135 hours and no instrument ticket, insurance is going to eat you alive on anything complex/high performance and more than 4 seats. I'd look into a Bellanca Viking, Mooney's and maybe PA32's and 205/206's.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
Truth
I always said that learning to land the Hershey bar arrows will make you forget how to land anything else
I hear ya. Consider that I will have the instrument ticket and closer to 185 hours by the time I pull trigger (next couple months). Does that help? Plus 10 hours in the club arrow.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
The ones I take care of are in a flight school setting. Retractable gear aren't really well suited to a training environment with lots of touch & goes and hard landings. That said, as landing gear go, they're pretty robust. They used the same gear legs on the Lance, Saratoga, Seminole and Seneca, on the bigger twins they're maintenance hogs, but on the arrows they're strong... I've seen some baaaad stuff.
As far as the difference maintenance wise, a basic gear swing and emergency extension test takes about 30 minutes. Inspecting the gear takes 5 to 10 minutes. If nothing is wrong with them then you wont even notice. If bushings are worn or something like that it might be a couple hours tacked on.
Unlike the Commanche or Bonanza they're stone simple. Unlike the retract Cessnas, they'll actually come down if a hydraulic hose blows
Some Arrows still have the auto extender (Piper released a kit to remove it, but not everyone did it), and there's nothing wrong with that system if you don't rely on it (like an idiot).As an owner you may have an annual every once in a while where the gear are a focus, but then you'll probably have a few where nothing is wrong with them. I take care of a privately owned 180 Arrow that spends half of its time in Mexico and the dust down there is biggest problem. We change a lot of strut seals and grease fittings, but other than that they're usually fine. The nice thing is that if bushings are worn they're usually pretty cheap.
The rest of the airplane is Cherokee simple. No surprises there as far the airframe is concerned.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Unlike the Commanche or Bonanza they're stone simple. Unlike the retract Cessnas, they'll actually come down if a hydraulic hose blows
Not sure if anything has changed since the last time I was around an Arrow often, but where I worked, we actually got an insurance break and could lower the insurance mins on the airplane because it had an operational auto extender.
The Arrow might not be the fastest in the world, but it is a good airplane that is reliable and fairly simple. From what I remember, the maintenance wasn't too bad on the airplane either.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
One of ours has it and one doesn't, I don't think the insurance between the two is any different as far as I know. And from a simplicity and reliability standpoint I'd much rather remove it... it's kind of a contraption
pullup
Homewrecker
Ah yes, lol you have won the lottery! Enjoy your newfound cash-flow!
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
One of ours has it and one doesn't, I don't think the insurance between the two is any different as far as I know. And from a simplicity and reliability standpoint I'd much rather remove it... it's kind of a contraption
I think it depends on the insurance company. I remember the one we used gave up a break more on guys with very little retractable gear time flying the airplane.
If memory serves, if it wasn't overridden, the system would automatically extend the gear if you were below a certain speed and manifold pressure... but it has been years since I have delt with one. trafficinsight probably knows the system better.
firedawg1513
Member
Crossville Aero in crossville tn (kcsv) has an arrow 200 hp for sale. been reduced a couple of times. crossvilleaero.com is their site. take a gander and good luck. :beer:
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
There is a pitot-looking tube on the side of the fuselage for the auto-extender. If the pressure drops below the design threshold, the gear will extend.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
I was climbing out in IMC at Vy in an Arrow with an auto-extender and it randomly decided to drop the gear. The system is definitely not perfect.
If you want an aircraft that will get you and most of your family around as well as help finish your training, the Arrow will be an excellent choice. Whatever you do, do not get the 180HP version.
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
Are you sure? I remember when the Arrow II came out. The flight school had an Arrow I and bought a brand new 1972 Arrow II. In 1978 an ArrowIII WOW!! Those were the good days of GA. I still have the bigger information manual for the II and that's where I pulled the W&B. Basic airplane without radios was 1496lbs. The one I flew had 116.9 pounds of optional equipment bringing it to 1658.4lbs. Max was 2650lbs.
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