SIC in C90

juxtapilot

juxtapilot

Snowflake
Curious how you would log this time.

You are hired as an SIC in a King Air C90 (single pilot airplane.) Obviously you're not required by FARs to be there. However, you are required to be in that aircraft by state laws/regulations. How would you log that time which you are not PF, or would you log it at all?
 
juxtapilot said:
Curious how you would log this time.

You are hired as an SIC in a King Air C90 (single pilot airplane.) Obviously you're not required by FARs to be there. However, you are required to be in that aircraft by state laws/regulations. How would you log that time which you are not PF, or would you log it at all?
Click to expand...

Which state laws are these?

If it's Part 91, I do not believe you can/should log it unless you are sole manipulator.
 
juxtapilot said:
Curious how you would log this time.

You are hired as an SIC in a King Air C90 (single pilot airplane.) Obviously you're not required by FARs to be there. However, you are required to be in that aircraft by state laws/regulations. How would you log that time which you are not PF, or would you log it at all?
Click to expand...
States, with very few exceptions, have no power to regulate aviation due to the interstate nature of air travel. Can you imagine trying to have to deal with 50 individual state aviation agencies?
 
dasleben said:
Which state laws are these?

If it's Part 91, I do not believe you can/should log it unless you are sole manipulator.
Click to expand...

Let's say a high ranking government official is onboard aircraft, it then requires 2 pilots. All other times only 1 is required. Still operating part 91.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
States, with very few exceptions, have no power to regulate aviation due to the interstate nature of air travel. Can you imagine trying to have to deal with 50 individual state aviation agencies?
Click to expand...

And they still try to... I got a letter the other day that I'm no longer allowed to fly in Oregon because I didn't pay my pilot registration dues. Guess it's a good thing I don't fly there anyway... :dunno:
 
juxtapilot said:
Let's say a high ranking government official is onboard aircraft, it then requires 2 pilots. All other times only 1 is required. Still operating part 91.
Click to expand...
That is not a regulation any more than if I chartered an aircraft from you and demanded you put a co-pilot it in it when it is only a single pilot aircraft. That is in the realm of insurance requirements and operator choice.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
That is not a regulation any more than if I chartered and aircraft from you and demanded you put a co-pilot it in it when it is only a single pilot aircraft. That is in the realm of insurance requirements and operator choice.
Click to expand...

That was my thought too... It's a single pilot aircraft.. But it is a government flight department and not an operator choice or an insurance requirement... (They would prefer single pilot because... that would be less expensive.) It's literally against the law to make that flight with only 1 pilot. That's all I'm saying.
 
I'd be interested to see the relevant statutes as I have a feeling it is far closer to "policy" than "law." Even if it were so, as far as the FAA is concerned it is perfectly legal. It could be possible that if it really is forbidden by statute you could discuss this with the local FSDO and get a letter of agreement or memorandum of understanding regarding these types of flights which would be specific to your operator and would state that for X, Y, Z conditions (same as whatever the statute says) a co-pilot is required which would make it OK to log that time as SIC.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I'd be interested to see the relevant statutes as I have a feeling it is far closer to "policy" than "law." Even if it were so, as far as the FAA is concerned it is perfectly legal. It could be possible that if it really is forbidden by statute you could discuss this with the local FSDO and get a letter of agreement or memorandum of understanding regarding these types of flights which would be specific to your operator and would state that for X, Y, Z conditions (same as whatever the statute says) a co-pilot is required which would make it OK to log that time as SIC.
Click to expand...

Hmm, that's not a bad idea. I'll pass that along. Thanks!
 
juxtapilot said:
That was my thought too... It's a single pilot aircraft.. But it is a government flight department and not an operator choice or an insurance requirement... (They would prefer single pilot because... that would be less expensive.) It's literally against the law to make that flight with only 1 pilot. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

Two pilots are required by some flight departments, and some flight departments are government operated. That does not imply statute, nor does it override FAR's. If there truly is a statute, then the chief pilot ought to be able to cite the reference.
 
Beat to Death; some research on this or any other pilot website may provide the answer.

( Looked for the beat the horse icon)
 
JDP said:
Beat to Death; some research on this or any other pilot website may provide the answer.

( Looked for the beat the horse icon)
Click to expand...

Yea... Been here for awhile, searched for this specific situation and didn't find it anywhere. :dunno:

Boris Badenov said:
Just go ahead and log it as Space Shuttle PIC. Might as well, it amounts to the same thing.
Click to expand...

Is that in the column next to my moon landings?

O&M said:
Two pilots are required by some flight departments, and some flight departments are government operated. That does not imply statute, nor does it override FAR's. If there truly is a statute, then the chief pilot ought to be able to cite the reference.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is true however there is a specific law requiring 2 pilots. Not implying anything. :)
 
I am a part time right seater for a 91 B200 operation. I only log the legs which I am sole manipulator. I don't log any of the legs that I'm not flying.

But I'm not required to be there, be it insurance or laws.
 
The only thing that matters in terms of logging is what's written in the FARs. State law has no bearing on what the FARs allow to be logged. Log what you want, but be prepared to argue your case on a future interview.
 
juxtapilot said:
Curious how you would log this time.

You are hired as an SIC in a King Air C90 (single pilot airplane.) Obviously you're not required by FARs to be there. However, you are required to be in that aircraft by state laws/regulations. How would you log that time which you are not PF, or would you log it at all?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't log it. I'm not required to be there and even if insurance requires me to be there, in the eyes of the FAA, I'm nothing more than a right seat warmer.
 
dahhcon said:
How do you log TT if there is no type of piloting time listed? That just doesnt make sense to me.
Click to expand...

There is good reason for that. He is skipping part of the FARs.

FAR 61.51 said:
(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(1) General—
(i) Date.
(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.
(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device, the location where the lesson occurred.
(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device, as appropriate.
(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by §91.109(b) of this chapter.
(2) Type of pilot experience or training—
(i) Solo.
(ii) Pilot in command.
(iii) Second in command.
(iv) Flight and ground training received from an authorized instructor.
(v) Training received in a flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device from an authorized instructor.
(3) Conditions of flight—
(i) Day or night.
(ii) Actual instrument.
(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight simulator, flight training device, or aviation training device.
(iv) Use of night vision goggles in an aircraft in flight, in a flight simulator, or in a flight training device.
Click to expand...

Logging only Total Time is just as good as me logging time sitting in the back of a 737. Both instances I am a pilot in an airplane but am not required to be there. Just because your seat happens to have a yoke doesn't mean you can log the time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top