AA flight crew assaulted in MIA

Maurus said:
Considering this was American Airlines I would say the crew probably had an avg age of 55
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And because of this, I'm surprised he wasn't some former military badass that could have knocked the guy out with a tap to the pressure point or at least a good ol' punch to the noggin.

Funny they mention San Juan. More than one friend has told me just sitting on an airplane full of SJU bound pax is scary in itself. I've never been there, but I guess there is some truth to it.
 
As good as it feels to be a badass in situations like this, not swinging back and defusing the situation is the best thing you can do if you want to avoid losing your job. Internet bravado will likely do you no good.
 
A gun, unless it's your only choice and you are extremely well trained in close quarters engagement, is a HORRIBLE weapon choice for many reasons including safety of those around and not involved. Someone mentioned the Maglite and I would agree but unless a confrontation was anticipated it wasn't an option. I think a person who was proficient in martial arts self defense would be best equipped but in reality a call ahead and police standing by would have been the best option.



Edit: Just realized I was contradictory. If you are extremely well trained in close quarters engagement you wouldn't use your gun unless compelled to.
 
cime_sp said:
I just have to ask.....what kind of pu$$sies do we have flying our airplanes? Why didn't they beat this guys ass? Life verbally threatened......Punched in the face in the aircraft.....beat down in the jetbridge...... chased into the terminal!!!! What kind of crew was this?
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Probably the kind of crew that's smart enough not to physically challenge a couple of young, Puerto Rican drug dealing thugs. At least not without help. I'm sure the situation was extremely intimidating and confusing.
 
RDoug said:
I practice drawing my weapon daily, and I can draw, deactivate the safety, and have the weapon aimed and ready to fire in under two seconds. Just takes a bit of practice.
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People who don't fire a weapon regularly are a mistake waiting to happen. Airline pilots must make the top of the list. Cops make that list too, accidental discharges and poor gun safety is common.
 
FlyChicaga said:
I still hold strong to my opinion. I just completed a week of tactical training for building searches, search warrant execution, and active shooter situations. I learned a lot, and I realize as a former FFDO, I wasn't properly prepared to deal with the dynamics of a close-quarters engagement. I believe the average citizen is not prepared for that situation either, which is why I hope gun owners don't just plink at the range, but rather search out more training.

Now in this situation, being an FFDO would not have mattered. Not to MMQB, but the best course of action would likely have been to call the Airport Police.

I hope the pilot is OK and doesn't suffer any permanent eye injuries.
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Hey I learned all my close-quarter training from playing Call of Duty. ;)
 
I have been in law enforcement since I was 18. I can say with no doubt a gun in the pilots hands would have been a very bad idea. I would recommend everyone flying 121 to get some defensive tactics instruction. Almost every close quarters encounter only lasts less than a minute before someone has lost. While its not the place of the pilot to be the police they are still in charge of the aircraft. Knowing how to defend yourself can save your life and atleast prevent some broken bones. Keeping yourself in fighting shape will also help if you need to use force to protect yourself. Plus it will keep you with a valid medical longer:D
 
fholbert said:
People who don't fire a weapon regularly are a mistake waiting to happen. Airline pilots must make the top of the list. Cops make that list too, accidental discharges and poor gun safety is common.
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..and I'll add the comment, 2 seconds is not fast...in timed drills one of mine could draw and fire 2 on target in less time than that. ( a lot less).

Ever do that with any distractions?..never mind while being punched in the mellon..

I'll stop now....
 
Doug Taylor said:
For the non-FFDO's, a weapon without proper tactical training is nothing more than wishful thinking and false bravado.

I've got some friends that think their gat is going to protect them during a zombie apocalypse, but any Joe Blow with a little bit of ghetto will have that weapon out of their hand and pointed at them with catlike quickness.
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I think we all know that zombies are generally slow and dumb. Joe blow will be fine with his gat. Now the roaming hordes of bandits and brigands? That may well be another story.
 
matt152 said:
You talkin' to me?
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You can believe me when I say that I'm very risk adverse . . . especially when carrying. I maintain constant awareness of my surroundings and actively seek to put myself well out of any potential confrontations, including crossing the street to get out of the way of anyone who looks or acts suspicious. The last thing I ever want to do is to have to pull my weapon.

I'm sure there are some CCLs out their like the De Niro character in Taxi, but I'm not one of them by any stretch.
 
RDoug said:
You can believe me when I say that I'm very risk adverse . . . especially when carrying. I maintain constant awareness of my surroundings and actively seek to put myself well out of any potential confrontations, including crossing the street to get out of the way of anyone who looks or acts suspicious. The last thing I ever want to do is to have to pull my weapon.

I'm sure there are some CCLs out their like the De Niro character in Taxi, but I'm not one of them by any stretch.
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I remember I was at a firing range and there was a doctor next to me who was carrying a concealed weapon. He was telling me that the incidences of CCL's using their weapons outside of the law was less than law enforcement. Basically saying that concealed carriers are more responsible with their guns than cops.
 
wheelsup said:
I remember I was at a firing range and there was a doctor next to me who was carrying a concealed weapon. He was telling me that the incidences of CCL's using their weapons outside of the law was less than law enforcement. Basically saying that concealed carriers are more responsible with their guns than cops.
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I'd just typed out a whole list of reasons cops would be more prone to draw their weapons when I went back and read that you're stipulating using weapons, "outside of the law." Thus, I trashed that response altogether. Too bad, because it was a good one. ;)
 
I am very impressed with the astonishing number of bad-asses on this thread.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of you. I don't have a samurai/ ninja zen around me at all times like everyone else and probably wouldn't expect to be punched repeatedly by a passenger. After I got clocked in the head once or twice I'd try to run away from the threat because let's face it, getting punched in the face is both surprising and painful. And as an absurd hypothetical if I was concealing a gun I'd definitely have forgotten I had it while my face was blocking hay-makers, and I would realize later to my great embarrassment that I forgot to use my gun.

Why the less than stellar response to the attack even though I've been trained in Army Combatives, marksmanship, and MOUT training? Probably because I couldn't simply type a response to my assailant's attack on the internet and would have to actually respond to him in real life.
 
Ian J said:
I am very impressed with the astonishing number of bad-asses on this thread.

Unfortunately, I'm not one of you. I don't have a samurai/ ninja zen around me at all times like everyone else and probably wouldn't expect to be punched repeatedly by a passenger. After I got clocked in the head once or twice I'd try to run away from the threat because let's face it, getting punched in the face is both surprising and painful. And as an absurd hypothetical if I was concealing a gun I'd definitely have forgotten I had it while my face was blocking hay-makers, and I would realize later to my great embarrassment that I forgot to use my gun.

Why the less than stellar response to the attack even though I've been trained in Army Combatives, marksmanship, and MOUT training? Probably because I couldn't simply type a response to my assailant's attack on the internet and would have to actually respond to him in real life.
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Good post.
 
The gun deal is moot here, whether FFDO or not. Whether gate agent or cops were there or not is moot. The situation was what it was. Definitely defend yourself if you're being beaten on. The pilot is lucky to be alive as any of the hits he took, had they landed in a certain way, could've put his lights out for good. In those times, you have the rest of your life to insure you survive and the other guy ceases to be a threat; it's literally life or death, as deadly force is being utilized against you. You can do something, or you can do nothing. Its your choice.
 
MikeD said:
The gun deal is moot here, whether FFDO or not. Whether gate agent or cops were there or not is moot. The situation was what it was. Definitely defend yourself if you're being beaten on. The pilot is lucky to be alive as any of the hits he took, had they landed in a certain way, could've put his lights out for good. In those times, you have the rest of your life to insure you survive and the other guy ceases to be a threat; it's literally life or death, as deadly force is being utilized against you. You can do something, or you can do nothing. Its your choice.
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What he said.
 
cime_sp said:
I just have to ask.....what kind of pu$$sies do we have flying our airplanes? Why didn't they beat this guys ass? Life verbally threatened......Punched in the face in the aircraft.....beat down in the jetbridge...... chased into the terminal!!!! What kind of crew was this?
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As others have said, the average age of an AMR pilot is over 50. The captain was probably approaching mandatory retirement, judging by the fact that he's based in MIA (a senior base) and flying primo routes to the Caribbean. His fighting days are probably long over.

But, even if not, the smart move for any pilot in this situation is to just extricate yourself from the situation without getting seriously injured. The legal problems that can arise from fighting in an airport or on an aircraft are just too serious. And what might happen if it turns out that the guy you fought was mentally handicapped, or on some sort of mind-altering medication? The company might decide that any PR hit from one of its pilots fighting such a person, even in self-defense, isn't worth it. Remember, the company doesn't care about you. So, they could terminate your employment, thinking that it will look better for them, and then wait for the arbitrator to order them to bring you back, which will happen a year later, after the media has stopped paying attention. No, lots of things to think about here, and none of them indicate that fighting back is a good idea. Just get out of the situation as quickly as possible and allow law enforcement to take care of it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
But, even if not, the smart move for any pilot in this situation is to just extricate yourself from the situation without getting seriously injured. The legal problems that can arise from fighting in an airport or on an aircraft are just too serious. And what might happen if it turns out that the guy you fought was mentally handicapped, or on some sort of mind-altering medication? The company might decide that any PR hit from one of its pilots fighting such a person, even in self-defense, isn't worth it. Remember, the company doesn't care about you. So, they could terminate your employment, thinking that it will look better for them, and then wait for the arbitrator to order them to bring you back, which will happen a year later, after the media has stopped paying attention. No, lots of things to think about here, and none of them indicate that fighting back is a good idea. Just get out of the situation as quickly as possible and allow law enforcement to take care of it.
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In this situation though, it appears as though disengaging wasn't an option, as the assailant kept coming after him. In THAT situation, you'd better darn well be ready to fight for your life and terminate the threat. Employment and airline PR shouldn't be thoughts on someone's mind when they're trying to fight for their life IF disengagement isn't an option. Again, this guy is lucky to be alive. Even so, the FO should've been backing him up. Two over-50 guys should be able to do something to this punk who was obviously intent on engaging with deadly force.
 
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