AA flight crew assaulted in MIA

MikeD said:
No weapon needed. Pilot should've beat his ass.....where was the FO? Possible lousy CRM. CRM applies to a combined ass beating too.
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The FO was waiting for his wheelchair to get up.

This was like beating senior citizens, I'm guessing the combined age in the cockpit was like 129 years.
 
NJA_Capt said:
Another reason to be charging appropriate fares.....ie much higher. win/win
(I hope that doesn't need an explanation)
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Shhh...don't give away our secrets.
 
An FFDO can only use the firearm in direct relation to a criminal attempt to gain control of an aircraft. I just read the rules. My bad. FML :(
 
Question:

Since this started on an airplane, do they face Federal charges? Or, since the assault happened in the jetway (which is also a secured area) does the crime remain a Federal one or is it a state issue?

That could play into how they are charged and ultimately, what penalty they face.
 
Doug Taylor said:
For the non-FFDO's, a weapon without proper tactical training is nothing more than wishful thinking and false bravado.
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I would have to disagree. You don't need tactical training to use a firearm in a self defense situation, just the simple knowledge of how to use/load and a small amount of simple target practice is adequate. Your imminent threat of danger predicted to exert loss of life or severe harm is typically within a very close proximity giving the novice gun owner a good chance of accomplishing the desired slug to body merger.
 
I practice drawing my weapon daily, and I can draw, deactivate the safety, and have the weapon aimed and ready to fire in under two seconds. Just takes a bit of practice.
 
killbilly said:
...does the crime remain a Federal one or is it a state issue?
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First one, then the other. :)

I would expect it to go down that way; if punches were thrown both on the aircraft and in the jetway (and the pursuit through he airport?) then I would expect the two locations could be regarded separately if the prosecutors were feeling ornery.
 
Doug Taylor said:
The primary reason why if you're going to boot someone from the airplane, demand the agent, the GSC AND the airport police meet the aircraft, every time, without a doubt.

Doesn't matter if you're giving some grandma and her irregular shih-tsuh the boot, all three.

I've seen a number of passengers removed, one a few days ago and with the "trifecta" if some jack-wagon wants to pull something like this, he's going to get a very public beat-down by the proper authorities.

Keep in mind that in America, no one cares if you've got two, three or four stripes so do not hesitate to call security.
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Couldn't have said it better myself

X-Forces said:
FFDO would not have been able to do a thing differently in this situation. Weapon or not, the situation would have been the same.
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Yup, unfortunately due to the nature the board we aren't going to get the FAMS or FFDO SOP's for situations like this. But Doug is right, security should have met the plane. Had that happend the FA and Pilot may have been fine with the cop being the one to get punch and thus upping the charges. I can't believe the DB's only got a 9000 dollary bail. What way to not send a message judge.

The TSA believe a plane cannot be hijacked at the gate and the cargo in the belly can't hurt you. :sarcasm: yes I did have a TSA agent tell me this.
 
Troy said:
I would have to disagree. You don't need tactical training to use a firearm in a self defense situation, just the simple knowledge of how to use/load and a small amount of simple target practice is adequate. Your imminent threat of danger predicted to exert loss of life or severe harm is typically within a very close proximity giving the novice gun owner a good chance of accomplishing the desired slug to body merger.
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I would strongly disagree. There is a major difference between drawing quickly and shooting at a range, compared to shooting inside a house under low-light conditions and close contact.
 
Troy said:
I would have to disagree. You don't need tactical training to use a firearm in a self defense situation, just the simple knowledge of how to use/load and a small amount of simple target practice is adequate. Your imminent threat of danger predicted to exert loss of life or severe harm is typically within a very close proximity giving the novice gun owner a good chance of accomplishing the desired slug to body merger.
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Turn down the testosterone a bit and listen, well, read actually.

a. Even though you're an FFDO, you cannot use your weapon in this situation. If you knew anything about the program, you would know that he most likely didn't have access.

b. Unrelated to "A", "proper tactical training" isn't required, but if Johnny "Ah'mo Gets My Guns" Hothead doesn't understand the dynamics of the situation, he just unintentionally armed his assailant.

There's a reason FFDO's have intensive weapons training. The "fight" is in the man, not solely the weapon.

I know "some stuff" and I can virtually guarantee you if a person pulls a piece on me and doesn't know precisely what he's doing, that person not only is going to have a broken wrist, he will have shot himself in the face twice.

Don't let my Carleton Banks demeanor fool you, that's five years of private university speaking. There's a little bit of street thug and Richard Markinko in these veins.
 
FlyChicaga said:
I would strongly disagree. There is a major difference between drawing quickly and shooting at a range, compared to shooting inside a house under low-light conditions and close contact.
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Okay well I'm probably not the best person to be giving an opinion on this then because I've had extensive government tactical training and I gave my reply based on what I could remember myself being capable or should I say not capable of doing before I was trained but my memory isn't the best these days. It just doesn't seem like rocket science to me though...
 
That run-on sentence is a deadly weapon! :) Sorry brother, I had to! :)
 
Part of the 121 training needs to include the Steven Segal front face kick, with fast track to the left seat as incentive.
 
As Army guy with an affinity for weapons and shooting stuff... In this particular situation the pilot carrying a gun probably would not have taken the outcome any place good.
 
Looks like the one on the left has a nice swollen eye.

As to the lawyer, go stick your head in the exhaust.
 
I just have to ask.....what kind of pu$$sies do we have flying our airplanes? Why didn't they beat this guys ass? Life verbally threatened......Punched in the face in the aircraft.....beat down in the jetbridge...... chased into the terminal!!!! What kind of crew was this?
 
Troy said:
Okay well I'm probably not the best person to be giving an opinion on this then because I've had extensive government tactical training and I gave my reply based on what I could remember myself being capable or should I say not capable of doing before I was trained but my memory isn't the best these days. It just doesn't seem like rocket science to me though...
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I still hold strong to my opinion. I just completed a week of tactical training for building searches, search warrant execution, and active shooter situations. I learned a lot, and I realize as a former FFDO, I wasn't properly prepared to deal with the dynamics of a close-quarters engagement. I believe the average citizen is not prepared for that situation either, which is why I hope gun owners don't just plink at the range, but rather search out more training.

Now in this situation, being an FFDO would not have mattered. Not to MMQB, but the best course of action would likely have been to call the Airport Police.

I hope the pilot is OK and doesn't suffer any permanent eye injuries.
 
FlyChicaga said:
I still hold strong to my opinion. I just completed a week of tactical training for building searches, search warrant execution, and active shooter situations. I learned a lot, and I realize as a former FFDO, I wasn't properly prepared to deal with the dynamics of a close-quarters engagement. I believe the average citizen is not prepared for that situation either, which is why I hope gun owners don't just plink at the range, but rather search out more training.

Now in this situation, being an FFDO would not have mattered. Not to MMQB, but the best course of action would likely have been to call the Airport Police.

I hope the pilot is OK and doesn't suffer any permanent eye injuries.
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Its often odd, but that standard 2 d cell may light for the walk around would have served the pilot better than a pistol. Somebody said they can have the cat skinned and cleaned in 2 seconds... that's great, but, in a terminal where I am probably inside of 10 feet from you, do you have any idea what I can do in those two seconds? Without training, the casual range shooter focuses so much on getting the weapon out, and on target that they overlook everything else.. and just end up helping the atacker. There is a reason nearly every tactical class teaches to seperate before engaging with a firearm.
 
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