Unions???

SpiraMirabilis said:
Obviously you haven't been keeping up with the push to end all "burdensome regulations" that is taking place in the body politic right now, for example the minimum wage, OSHA (hazmat rules), and various others. If you believe what we have achieved today could not be taken away tomorrow you are a fool.
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Same could be said for anybody who thinks any burdensome regulations are going away anytime soon.
 
...yeah.

Please raise your hand if you've flown the line for at least one non-union carrier, and can actually tell people what it's like.

*raises hand*

There is an unnecessary amount of hyperbole in this thread.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
Obviously you haven't been keeping up with the push to end all "burdensome regulations" that is taking place in the body politic right now, for example the minimum wage, OSHA (hazmat rules), and various others. If you believe what we have achieved today could not be taken away tomorrow you are a fool.
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I wouldn't doubt there are attempts to get of them. Are they even close to passing? Can you cite some examples?
 
wheelsup said:
Often the threat of unionization is enough to keep management on their toes, not the other way around. Example, Skywest, jetBlue, etc.
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I do agree with that.

I also can recall enough examples of things from mrvc211 and Bumblebee on here to conclude that they are still better off unionizing.

jetBlue is fairly new, too. If they get bought by, say, American, I would NOT want to be on the jetBlue seniority list going into that without a contract in place.
 
Nick said:
I do agree with that.

I also can recall enough examples of things from mrvc211 and Bumblebee on here to conclude that they are still better off unionizing.

jetBlue is fairly new, too. If they get bought by, say, American, I would NOT want to be on the jetBlue seniority list going into that without a contract in place.
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Better off unionizing is an entirely different subject than what is at hand.

American buy jetBlue? They are new BFFs. American will continue to outsour...I mean codeshare with jetBlue. jetBlue is American's new domestic feeder. Say buh-bye to Eagle.
 
wheelsup said:
Better off unionizing is an entirely different subject than what is at hand.

American buy jetBlue? They are new BFFs. American will continue to outsour...I mean codeshare with jetBlue. jetBlue is American's new domestic feeder. Say buh-bye to Eagle.
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This is another perfect example of why jetBlue should unionize.

They have zero international scope.

Why will they ever need to grow themselves in that matter when they can just book pax on AA overseas?
 
Nick said:
This is another perfect example of why jetBlue should unionize.

They have zero international scope.

Why will they ever need to grow themselves in that matter when they can just book pax on AA overseas?
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The company will chose which ever way is cheapest and makes most sense brand wise. It's been stated by the jetBlue management team they wish to engage in organic growth because they want to keep their product, well, their product.

We're moving away from safety issues and into job security issues. Unions protect jobs, but at what cost? Lots of jobs have left the US due in most part to the cost of labor. US pilots are currently shielded from that by federal laws.
 
wheelsup said:
The company will chose which ever way is cheapest and makes most sense brand wise. It's been stated by the jetBlue management team they wish to engage in organic growth because they want to keep their product, well, their product.

We're moving away from safety issues and into job security issues. Unions protect jobs, but at what cost? Lots of jobs have left the US due in most part to the cost of labor. US pilots are currently shielded from that by federal laws.
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If their lips are moving . . . :)

Really though, the example that Bumblebee posted about ready reserve in SLC during the olympics is a perfect example. They were told it was temporary and years later they are stuck doing it.

It sure would be nice to have these things in writing.
 
wheelsup said:
I wouldn't doubt there are attempts to get of them. Are they even close to passing? Can you cite some examples?
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This has been happening at a state level for the most part, and I am back on the tablet which removes my ability to research effectively, so just off the top of my head: Maine's rollback of child labor laws combined with exempting minors from the minimum wage (they get to work more for less now, when they should probably be in school.)
 
jtrain609 said:
You running a decertification drive, wheelsup?
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Oh believe me I hate what both sides do. Companies that say one thing or do another, or completely screw people over like the one that recently fired some higher up muckity-muck CPA whose wife got cancer to get out of medical bills.

But saying stuff like a non-union carrier has sick pilots who work 20+ hours a day is just fear mongering.
 
wheelsup said:
Unions were created back in the day to get what almost every employee gets today. OSHA, FMLA, etc. are all federal laws nowadays. As well as FARs in our case.
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And . . . you don't think laws (and FARs) can change, is that it?

Without unions, you can kiss most of those protections and programs goodbye. Count on it.
 
wheelsup said:
Oh believe me I hate what both sides do. Companies that say one thing or do another, or completely screw people over like the one that recently fired some higher up muckity-muck CPA whose wife got cancer to get out of medical bills.

But saying stuff like a non-union carrier has sick pilots who work 20+ hours a day is just fear mongering.
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So, no decertification drive, then?
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
This has been happening at a state level for the most part, and I am back on the tablet which removes my ability to research effectively, so just off the top of my head: Maine's rollback of child labor laws combined with exempting minors from the minimum wage (they get to work more for less now, when they should probably be in school.)
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Oooo sounds scary. I'll research it for you:

The following are exempt from all of the State hourly restrictions:

  1. A minor employed in the planting, cultivating or harvesting of field crops or other agricultural employment not in direct contact with hazardous machinery or substances. (Federal child labor laws for agriculture are different. See Section IX. Federal Prohibited Occupations.)
  2. A minor working as an employed or in-training actor;
  3. A minor working at a children’s camp;
  4. A minor who is legally emancipated;
  5. Minors employed in fishing occupations or in the operation of ferries or excursion boats are exempt from the weekly and hourly restrictions only while school is not in session
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That's a pretty short list for fear mongering.
 
RDoug said:
And . . . you don't think laws (and FARs) can change, is that it?

Without unions, you can kiss most of those protections and programs goodbye. Count on it.
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Well that would be at a national level, not a local level. Hence why you have labor organizations. Yin and yang.

ETA: If you look at what little has changed in the years, and look what is going on due to the Colgan crash, I think you can come to the conclusion that those labor coalitions really don't do much. Blood does.
 
You're stupid, wheelsup. Just kidding, but that list doesn't mean anything. What the law did was to change the hourly limit minors could work a week, not exempt them altogether. I believe they are limited to 36 hours now (almost a full work week!) when before it was like 20. The list of exempt classes of minors did not change, I do not think.
 
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