Why such a lengthy ATIS?

smig said:
Why do so many ATIS's, particularly the automated ones, include so much superfluous information?
.
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Bureaucracy and litigation.

boondr said:
The 7110.65 lists eleventy billion things (that must be included on) the ATIS
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And that doesn't count the stuff that facility managers can add supplementary to that which is required. With those, the number could easily approach twelvety billion.

MikeD said:
the "automated ATIS man" is sometimes hard to understand
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His name is Sven. He is from the FAA and he is here to help.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
North Vegas has a particularly long ATIS. I guess the place must be pilot deviation city. "Read back all hold short instructions, and runway assignments with your full call sign. Yellow flashing lights indicate you are approaching an active runway. Converging and opposing runway operations in effect."

(No kidding, no kidding and, no kidding, really? I didn't get that from the "landing and departing runways 12L, 12R, 7, and 25"...)
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North Las Vegas's configuration is not the only thing contributing to deviation city, but it is my opinion that the controllers there are some of the worst in the nation. Their ineptitude blows my mind, and I don't think I've ever seen controllers be as consistently horrible as they are there. Most folks have a bad day every once in a while, but North Las Vegas is having a bad decade at this rate.
 
Here are some common examples of information I think we can do without...

"it is mandatory to read back all runway hold short instructions" - it always has been, I don't need the reminder.
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I would guess it's because so many pilots DON'T read back a lot of stuff that they are required to. Every morning, no matter what airport I'm sitting at, I hear ground have to remind someone to read back runway assignment.
 
ATIS! Y U NO SHUT UP?

I hate it when I tune in just after the winds and have to listen to all that garbage just to get the winds ;)

Here at RVS they have like 10 hangar rows being torn up for repaving, each one is on the ATIS.
 
trafficinsight said:
ATIS! Y U NO SHUT UP?

I hate it when I tune in just after the winds and have to listen to all that garbage just to get the winds ;)

Here at RVS they have like 10 hangar rows being torn up for repaving, each one is on the ATIS.
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Thats why there's a windsock. :)
 
As long as we're on the ATIS subject...

Why is it that right after a new ATIS is recorded the information seems to instantly change? The controller comes up on tower or ground and says "ATIS information zulu now current, wind 250 at 12, altimeter 29.93, runways 28 in use." And inevitably when you listen to the new ATIS the wind is 260 at 8 and the altimeter is 29.89. What happened in the 3 minutes since it was recorded and why is this info different? I get why it's different 30 minutes later, but right when it's announced?
 
MikeD said:
Thats why there's a windsock. :)
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Durrr what's a windsock? ;)

I do like to listen to the entire ATIS at least once and get/write down the basics. I just hate it when I miss the very beginning and then have to listen to remarks a mile long to get the very beginning ;)
 
Lengthy ATIS are especially annoying during short IFR hops while instructing. Sometimes it's possible to get it quickly, sometimes not due to terrain, and/or the student's lack of skill are increasing your workload dramatically. It's a necessary evil though I suppose.
 
Landis said:
As long as we're on the ATIS subject...

Why is it that right after a new ATIS is recorded the information seems to instantly change? The controller comes up on tower or ground and says "ATIS information zulu now current, wind 250 at 12, altimeter 29.93, runways 28 in use." And inevitably when you listen to the new ATIS the wind is 260 at 8 and the altimeter is 29.89. What happened in the 3 minutes since it was recorded and why is this info different? I get why it's different 30 minutes later, but right when it's announced?
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The automated system that records the observation posts the hourly numbers and those are used to record the ATIS broadcast. Once the ATIS recording is complete and broadcasting, the controller announces the change on frequency and is probably reading the weather from direct measurement devices in the tower cab. Meaning, they are looking at the current wind/altimeter being displayed on separate devices in the tower from the computer that recorded the hourly observation, the same ones they look at when you ask for a "wind check" or something. These numbers are rarely exactly the same as what the automated surface observation system recorded for the hourly. The altimeter shouldn't be TOO far off if the hourly just published (unless pressure is rising/falling rapidly), but the wind is always different and changes every few seconds.
 
It's the same logic that results in briefings including warnings about 220' tall unlit towers seven miles north of your departure airport. The chance of you ever needing that information is so remote as to be absurd. But, when something goes wrong, a lawyer will be standing there trying to figure out how to convince a jury that someone with deep pockets should be required to give money to his client (of which he gets a third). The government doesn't want to be that "someone" with deep pockets. So even though it's not needed, we're all going to get it anyway.


CAUTION: DO NOT PLACE HANDS UNDER RUNNING LAWN MOWER OR USE TO TRIM HEDGES.
 
FM_Weasel said:
The automated system that records the observation posts the hourly numbers and those are used to record the ATIS broadcast. Once the ATIS recording is complete and broadcasting, the controller announces the change on frequency and is probably reading the weather from direct measurement devices in the tower cab.
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Thanks FM_Weasel. I figured something like that but didn't realize that the hourly numbers didn't come from the same readings that you use in the cab.
 
jtrain609 said:
North Las Vegas's configuration is not the only thing contributing to deviation city, but it is my opinion that the controllers there are some of the worst in the nation. Their ineptitude blows my mind, and I don't think I've ever seen controllers be as consistently horrible as they are there. Most folks have a bad day every once in a while, but North Las Vegas is having a bad decade at this rate.
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Yea try instructing there. Nightmare.

ACARS FTW
 
trafficinsight said:
Durrr what's a windsock? ;)

I do like to listen to the entire ATIS at least once and get/write down the basics. I just hate it when I miss the very beginning and then have to listen to remarks a mile long to get the very beginning ;)
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On the AWOS broadcast at KBJC, they also have a human rcorded message at the end to let everybody know that when the tower is closed from 10 pm to 6 am local time they should use the tower frequency for CTAF, get weather & altimeter information from Denver Approach and contact Flight Service for notam information. They also leave the message on when the tower is open.
 
I suggest you avoid KACY. Their 20 minute long ATIS includes all taxiway closures, constructions, hookers working on the sideways, their rates and location to all strip clubs.
 
TopGunn said:
I suggest you avoid KACY. Their 20 minute long ATIS includes all taxiway closures, constructions, hookers working on the sideways, their rates and location to all strip clubs.
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I dunno...That sounds like pretty important info to me.
 
Houston said:
It's the same logic that results in briefings including warnings about 220' tall unlit towers seven miles north of your departure airport. The chance of you ever needing that information is so remote as to be absurd.
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Remember, the ATIS is for everybody.

As rotary-wing, the above info is very important to know. No different than me saying they're wasting my time with taxiway closure info since I don't use the taxiways or runways. It's all just part of the ATIS, which serves all aircraft.
 
MikeD said:
Remember, the ATIS is for everybody.

As rotary-wing, the above info is very important to know. No different than me saying they're wasting my time with taxiway closure info since I don't use the taxiways or runways. It's all just part of the ATIS, which serves all aircraft.
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Maybe that would make sense except it isn't in the ATIS, it is in the briefing.

But, if someone has to tell you there is an unlit 220' tower seven miles from your airport when you fly a helicopter, it would be a REALLY long briefing to fly cross-country.
 
Guy said:
Maybe that would make sense except it isn't in the ATIS, it is in the briefing.

But, if someone has to tell you there is an unlit 220' tower seven miles from your airport when you fly a helicopter, it would be a REALLY long briefing to fly cross-country.
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Missing the point though. Oftentimes there are things that popup before a NOTAM can be published for it. And if it's in or near the terminal area of an aerodrome, having it on the ATIS isn't unreasonable.
 
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