PNCL pilots are our brothers! Unity?

etflies said:
Says the guy who thinks it would be ok for himself to be placed above who knows how many pilots at the other two companies that have spent more time in the industry than he, simply because of the name next to the "Operated By:" decal on his shiny jet.
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Well, I'd be ok with DOH with certain protections. And I don't know who I will be put above. All I do know is that I do not want anyone junior to me go senior to me in the SLI award. Is that such a harsh thing to ask? I think not.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Aww, poor cry-babies. Heaven fobid Colgan pilots get credit for simply time spent in-industry (aka, DOH). Oh, the horror! Oh unjust and unfair that would be! :rolleyes:
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Aww, prediction for the end of the world occuring today leave you a little testy? Sorry bro! That guy did sell some t-shirts!
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Well, I'd be ok with DOH with certain protections. And I don't know who I will be put above. All I do know is that I do not want anyone junior to me go senior to me in the SLI award. Is that such a harsh thing to ask? I think not.
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Define 'junior'. DOH? Relative Seniority? By seat? What you feel is appropriate? Number of dingleberries?
 
OldTownPilot said:
Define 'junior'. DOH? Relative Seniority? By seat? What you feel is appropriate? Number of dingleberries?
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"Junior" going above a pilot would be defined as if a pilot has a DOH of [xxx] and then another pilot hired after that date of [xxx] then ends up coming above the original pilot in the final ISL.

I don't know what's appropriate exactly. I don't think any one single method across the board is appropriate.

But speaking from common sense, DOH makes sense because it directly credits you for the time you have spent at your airline. And for a majority of pilots at XJ/9E/9L, this was our first airline. Exclude the Gulfstream program of 250 hrs on the Beech, I'd venture to say that 9E is a first-time airline for almost 90% of our pilots. At Colgan, do the math, but again, an overwhelming majority are first-timers. In this regard, DOH is fair. The only place DOH trips up is the fact that Mesaba pilots would benefit most, at a time when their fleet is actually shrinking, therefore punishing the junior end Pinnacle/Colgan DOHs.



Aww, prediction for the end of the world occuring today leave you a little testy? Sorry bro! That guy did sell some t-shirts!
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NAww, just calling out pilots who feel like their years of service should magically increase by a factor to jump over several senior (to said individual) pilots.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
"Junior" going above a pilot would be defined as if a pilot has a DOH of [xxx] and then another pilot hired after that date of [xxx] then ends up coming above the original pilot in the final ISL.

I don't know what's appropriate exactly. I don't think any one single method across the board is appropriate.

But speaking from common sense, DOH makes sense because it directly credits you for the time you have spent at your airline. And for a majority of pilots at XJ/9E/9L, this was our first airline. Exclude the Gulfstream program of 250 hrs on the Beech, I'd venture to say that 9E is a first-time airline for almost 90% of our pilots. At Colgan, do the math, but again, an overwhelming majority are first-timers. In this regard, DOH is fair. The only place DOH trips up is the fact that Mesaba pilots would benefit most, at a time when their fleet is actually shrinking, therefore punishing the junior end Pinnacle/Colgan DOHs.





N[/U]Aww, just calling out pilots who feel like their years of service should magically increase by a factor to jump over several senior (to said individual) pilots.
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DOH or Relative......I'm guaranteed to be senior to you, by a large margin. Start practicing this now..... "positive rate." ;)

So, to listen to your incessant drivel (which, by the way....weren't you supposedly out of the thread until the list was announced?) is like listening to a busted record. Of course you want whatever is fair.....provided you're the #1 '07 or below guy on the list. Thanks for the comedy though; this thread definitely appreciates your ridiculous line of reasoning.
 
Tomorrow the fun starts... I hope. This list needs to come out so we can stop this needless bickering and get on with it already as one united group. We forget sometimes that this fight is not with each other.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Aww, poor cry-babies. Heaven fobid Colgan pilots get credit for simply time spent in-industry (aka, DOH). Oh, the horror! Oh unjust and unfair that would be! :rolleyes:
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Not for nothin' but you seem to forget the majority of the 2009 and later hires have more time in the industry than yourself. Just because our colgan doh says one thing, it's different for years of service "in the industry" like you said. Besides, while I (and many other "junior" colgan pilots) were putting in our "time in industry" flying for other airlines... You were what, a baggage handler?
 
CC, nevermind I just read your later post. Just remember years in-industry has nothing to do with DOH. I'd edit my last post if I could but cant find the option on my phone's browser.
 
TristarJS30 said:
Not for nothin' but you seem to forget the majority of the 2009 and later hires have more time in the industry than yourself. Just because our colgan doh says one thing, it's different for years of service "in the industry" like you said. Besides, while I (and many other "junior" colgan pilots) were putting in our "time in industry" flying for other airlines... You were what, a baggage handler?
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This is a very good point... Colgan is my second air carrier... I would gander about 30% of our pilots whom were hired after JAN09 are furloughed pilots... many of which are Comair guys with 4-5 years of experience
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Well, I'd be ok with DOH with certain protections. And I don't know who I will be put above. All I do know is that I do not want anyone junior to me go senior to me in the SLI award. Is that such a harsh thing to ask? I think not.
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There is certainly a chance that your worst nightmare will come true. The only scenarios in which it will not be the case is DOH or possibly Pinnacles proposal. If it is a status and category where a captain is "ranked" higher than an FO then there is a chance you will see a mid 08' Colgan Q400 Captain above you due to their higher "status". If they rank a turboprop below a jet regardless of the position held then you will get your wish (sort of Pinnacles methodology).

If anyone were to go above you with less time in service at your airline it will not affect you although most people seem to miss this point. While 3 years at Pinnacle gets you one thing, 3 years at Colgan gets you another and typically career expectation is one of the considerations honored. While a 4 year guy at Pinnacle is a few months from upgrading, a 3 year guy at Colgan is a few months from upgrading. If the 3 year Colgan guy were to be above you guess what...you are both still a few months from upgrading and will have the same QOL upon upgrade as you would have had at your separate airlines pre merger, junior CAs.

Early this week we will all know. Just accept it like *most* have since the world will continue to turn. We made it through rapture and the end of the world, this should be easy.
 
TristarJS30 said:
Not for nothin' but you seem to forget the majority of the 2009 and later hires have more time in the industry than yourself. Just because our colgan doh says one thing, it's different for years of service "in the industry" like you said. Besides, while I (and many other "junior" colgan pilots) were putting in our "time in industry" flying for other airlines... You were what, a baggage handler?
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He was in the Top Gun class at Jet U. It's an elite group of natural born aviators that had to go thru a thorough screening process (financial statement) to get in. Part of the "University" guarantee was priority advancement in seniority with all carriers.

CC...I know I don't know you personally but I do know your caricature on this forum. You are going to blow a fuse when you see the new list! You shouldn't call people cry babies when you are one of the biggest!
 
USMC-SSGT said:
There is certainly a chance that your worst nightmare will come true. The only scenarios in which it will not be the case is DOH or possibly Pinnacles proposal. If it is a status and category where a captain is "ranked" higher than an FO then there is a chance you will see a mid 08' Colgan Q400 Captain above you due to their higher "status". If they rank a turboprop below a jet regardless of the position held then you will get your wish (sort of Pinnacles methodology).

If anyone were to go above you with less time in service at your airline it will not affect you although most people seem to miss this point. While 3 years at Pinnacle gets you one thing, 3 years at Colgan gets you another and typically career expectation is one of the considerations honored. While a 4 year guy at Pinnacle is a few months from upgrading, a 3 year guy at Colgan is a few months from upgrading. If the 3 year Colgan guy were to be above you guess what...you are both still a few months from upgrading and will have the same QOL upon upgrade as you would have had at your separate airlines pre merger, junior CAs.

Early this week we will all know. Just accept it like *most* have since the world will continue to turn. We made it through rapture and the end of the world, this should be easy.
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Trying to break it down for that guy is an exercise in futility!
 
USMC-SSGT said:
There is certainly a chance that your worst nightmare will come true. The only scenarios in which it will not be the case is DOH or possibly Pinnacles proposal. If it is a status and category where a captain is "ranked" higher than an FO then there is a chance you will see a mid 08' Colgan Q400 Captain above you due to their higher "status". If they rank a turboprop below a jet regardless of the position held then you will get your wish (sort of Pinnacles methodology).

If anyone were to go above you with less time in service at your airline it will not affect you although most people seem to miss this point. While 3 years at Pinnacle gets you one thing, 3 years at Colgan gets you another and typically career expectation is one of the considerations honored. While a 4 year guy at Pinnacle is a few months from upgrading, a 3 year guy at Colgan is a few months from upgrading. If the 3 year Colgan guy were to be above you guess what...you are both still a few months from upgrading and will have the same QOL upon upgrade as you would have had at your separate airlines pre merger, junior CAs.

Early this week we will all know. Just accept it like *most* have since the world will continue to turn. We made it through rapture and the end of the world, this should be easy.
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What is it with you and all this reasonable, logical, informed talk. This is not the place for any of that!:insane:
 
Gonzo said:
As someone from the outside, I am just trying to see why people are against DOH with a fence to keep 9L guys from getting kicked out of their seats. Jr CA at XJ and 9E about the same.
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No matter what the award is, no one is going to lose their seat. Even if it was a staple job, you would still keep your seat and equipment.

USMC-SSGT said:
There is certainly a chance that your worst nightmare will come true. The only scenarios in which it will not be the case is DOH or possibly Pinnacles proposal. If it is a status and category where a captain is "ranked" higher than an FO then there is a chance you will see a mid 08' Colgan Q400 Captain above you due to their higher "status". If they rank a turboprop below a jet regardless of the position held then you will get your wish (sort of Pinnacles methodology).

If anyone were to go above you with less time in service at your airline it will not affect you although most people seem to miss this point. While 3 years at Pinnacle gets you one thing, 3 years at Colgan gets you another and typically career expectation is one of the considerations honored. While a 4 year guy at Pinnacle is a few months from upgrading, a 3 year guy at Colgan is a few months from upgrading...
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not to beat a dead horse but when was the snapshot taken for career expectation? DOS? The growth at colgan was post pinnacle purchase. that argument can both hurt u or help you as a colgan guy.
 
I have to admit, it's very refreshing to watch the whole debate from the outside this time! :)

I hope CC hasn't ordered the new captain's epaulets yet! :)
 
CEWLGUY said:
Snapshot is July 1st 2010, the day we all met.
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This is something that a lot of people don't realize. Something like 150+ guys were brought on at colgan after the merger was announced. Our relative seniority has gone up quite a bit with that hiring and even with a 100% relative seniority merger we won't get to take advantage of those that have been hired since July 1. I don't mean that as a complaint, just to make it clear to those complaining about all our growth and how it's unfair to use it as "leverage" in a relative merger. A relative merger will still yield colgan roughly a 6-1 integration
 
JrsyGuy said:
This is something that a lot of people don't realize. Something like 150+ guys were brought on at colgan after the merger was announced. Our relative seniority has gone up quite a bit with that hiring and even with a 100% relative seniority merger we won't get to take advantage of those that have been hired since July 1. I don't mean that as a complaint, just to make it clear to those complaining about all our growth and how it's unfair to use it as "leverage" in a relative merger. A relative merger will still yield colgan roughly a 6-1 integration
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Keep in mind that there might be a certain point at which people hired recently may go to the end of the senioritiy list, like what Bloch did with the Delta SLI.
 
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