GA will not be a path to the airlines.......

The question is, how cheap are our regionals compared to others? I really don't see them wanting to put down money for training. Then again I don't mind that as that would cause mainline to bulk up a bit instead of outsource the flying.
 
It would seem that this would allow the airline to control the starting pay and keep the pilots for a longer period of time to get the debt forgiveness. I would think this ultimately lowers the cost of training and operation and increases the profit which is the main anyway. Factor in the not having to train new hires as often and you got a win situation for the airline and one they can take advantage of with the Pilots.

I wonder what this has done to the pay scales over the last two years and what will happen in the future as these new pilots stay with the company over the seven year period. The fact that they have had a high attrition rate in the past speaks volumes as to the QOF/pay for the group.

It will be interesting to watch for sure!
 
Wait... so at one point in the article he says "We were lucky to hire 50% of the candidates we met" and then later in the article it says "We took 106 students into the program, 82 graduated, and 58 are line qualified"

So right about 50% :P
 
trafficinsight said:
Wait... so at one point in the article he says "We were lucky to hire 50% of the candidates we met" and then later in the article it says "We took 106 students into the program, 82 graduated, and 58 are line qualified"

So right about 50% :P
Click to expand...

I thought that same thing...
 
Welcome to the future. This has been going on for years at various Asian airlines, and I suspect it's going to come here as well. It allows the airline to control the cost and quality of the pilot they produce, and then retain them for years as virtual indentured servants, which further keeps costs and turnover down.
 
They will play with this concept until it is clearly in the the airlines favor $ wise.

Consider,

-All those who pay to play but don't finish training, $ to the airline.

-All those who finish training then fly at a reduced salary, $ to the airline.

-Those who don't stay long enough and pay loan interest, $ to the airline.

Take all that money and put it against those who make it all the way to loan forgiveness and you can clearly see the bean counters will find a way to make it work. Notice he said in the period of only 2 years they went from pure GA source to cutting it off.

Must really suck to have spent all the cash on GA training, get to the front door and find yourself locked out.... "Sorry, we train our own to control the quality; You are over qualifed; Go away!"

Bottom line. If this model is tweaked enough where it is cheaper for the airlines it will come to the United States.
 
trafficinsight said:
Wait... so at one point in the article he says "We were lucky to hire 50% of the candidates we met" and then later in the article it says "We took 106 students into the program, 82 graduated, and 58 are line qualified"

So right about 50% :P
Click to expand...

I think you mis-read the quote:

"Historically we sourced pilots from GA," says Hine, speaking at the World Aviation Training conference in Orlando, Florida on 20 April, "but we couldn't find enough to qualify or to meet our standards. We were lucky to hire 50% of the candidates we met."

That quote is referring to the fact they hired 50% of the GA candidates.

"To date, 106 cadets have been inducted into the programme, 82 of whom have graduated and 58 of whom are now line-checked to operate the Saabs, says Hine."

That number refers only to the number that have started the ab initio program.
 
Unless the ATP requirment is somehow waived from flying 121, a-la MPL or LOA, this will NEVER happen in the US.
 
Maddog1974 said:
It would seem that this would allow the airline to control the starting pay and keep the pilots for a longer period of time to get the debt forgiveness. I would think this ultimately lowers the cost of training and operation and increases the profit which is the main anyway. Factor in the not having to train new hires as often and you got a win situation for the airline and one they can take advantage of with the Pilots.

I wonder what this has done to the pay scales over the last two years and what will happen in the future as these new pilots stay with the company over the seven year period. The fact that they have had a high attrition rate in the past speaks volumes as to the QOF/pay for the group.

It will be interesting to watch for sure!
Click to expand...

The other variable is that they can monitor the quality of instruction given. From hard experience, I know that varies widely and has a very large input on training costs.

Just hazarding a guess, but look for the larger GA training ops <cough>atp</cough> to start specializing this way.
 
Inverted25 said:


You do know that this isnt something new right? Airlines in Europe have been doing this for decades. Alot of them have their training academys here in the United States.
​
Click to expand...


This is different. It's not a "few" Major European lines with a fully funded program. It's a move to create a new pipeline for the regionals, funded by the wanna be pilot, to maintain a flow of cheap labor. Not the same. Growth and spreading to the US will be stymied by the push in the opposite direction by the push for more experience (ala 1,500 ATP, etc). Key players here will push back with MPL as an alternative to the 1,500 requirement. Look for the ATA, RAA, AIRCON, and the aviation universities to come up with a strategy sooner than later.

This new pipeline will kill off the traditional GA path and lock out those who spent all their money (and future money, loans; not dischargable in bankruptcy) on flight training. That will really suck for them.
 
This new pipeline will kill off the traditional GA path and lock out those who spent all their money (and future money, loans; not dischargable in bankruptcy) on flight training. That will really suck for them.
Click to expand...

Dream on. First off airline jobs arent the only flying jobs. Part 135 cargo and Part 91 corporate jobs arent going to create pipeline training programs. Too expensive and they are too small to care. So GA will live on just fine. Plus guys trained up these new MPL programs won't qualify for the part 135 or part 91 jobs. They already dont care for airline types and really wont care for someone who never flew single pilot IFR. I would bet the majors would still hire part 91 and part 135 with turbine time as well. I would be the majors dont even get into this MPL just the regionals if anyone. Why would the majors get into it when they already have a adequate supply of pilots and will into the future as long as theres part 135, part 91 and regional guys coming through the ranks.
 
beasly said:
The other variable is that they can monitor the quality of instruction given. From hard experience, I know that varies widely and has a very large input on training costs.

Just hazarding a guess, but look for the larger GA training ops <cough>atp</cough> to start specializing this way.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that they would be able to control the quality of instruction...IF the program is managed correctly. A large airline that would go this route has a vested interest in making sure the right management team oversees the program and makes sure the quality is what they are looking for. More than likely it would be managed correctly and I am not sure why I posted this thought...seems like it may not matured enough before being spit out.

The location I'm in now has a lack of management and the only reason the students get decent training is because we know they will be entering US or European airspace in the next teen years. The lack of oversight means we, as the instructors, could do whatever we want, such as ignoring aircraft limitations, but we won't allow the students to do that. Now I am not saying that a program like what we are talking about would allow that, just that the right type of management can make a huge difference.

I don't know if ATP would make the jump to do this. There is a profit to be made (by ATP) in that niche and they market it very well (I would know). If an airline created, or tasked an outside company to create, an "Ab Initio Academy", would it be as has been stated above:
-All those who pay to play but don't finish training, $ to the airline.

-All those who finish training then fly at a reduced salary, $ to the airline.

-Those who don't stay long enough and pay loan interest, $ to the airline
Click to expand...

I wonder if an ATP like company could make a profit from the Airline parent company in a situation like this. I think I agree with seaav8tor in that it would be in the interest of the airline to go this route and not contract it out.

I am probably wrong though and a business model is already being grown/hatched/planned as we speak that will put us all out of business in two to three years. I think that is what frightens me the most, if this comes to the US, then it would be 2-3 years and you would have to enter the "program" to get a job at an airline-big/small/ regional/LLC. What the hell are we going to do then?
 
Will it happen? Who knows. Could it happen? sure.
Other industries hard up for workers offer programs like this, so it wouldn't be novel.
 
Will it happen? Who knows. Could it happen? sure.
Other industries hard up for workers offer programs like this, so it wouldn't be novel.
Click to expand...

But are the airlines hard up for workers or is this just more over blown hype about a pilot shortage?

I dont see the airlines spending any money they dont have to. Here in the United States we have the most robust GA system in the world. If the airlines beleive that they will have enough able bodies to fill the seats they wont bother with this program. It is just too costly. Even with the students having to pay if they dont make it the required years with the airline it still wont be a profitable program. If anything I think you will see more agreements between the big flight schools and the regional airlines. I dont think you will see the airlines opening up their own flight schools anytime soon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top