Failed Check rides and Consequences.

mxaexm said:
I would say, get some good experience such as glass cockpit, actual IFR, maybe some extra ratings such as glider, sea plane...show them that you are trainable and keep on applying: sooner or later you will get hired!!!

I really hate the fact that they are even asking for failed checkrides, part 141 has no checkrides...but training under part 141 does not ultimately mean being a better pilot...

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Uh. .your very wrong on this! Please dont state that! part 141 DOES have checkrides! Also, most airline apps now ask if you have also failed stage or line checks.

Remember, that the airlines are going to be hiring you, expecting to have to defend you if something ever goes wrong. So fresh FO out of flight instructing and on year later gets into trouble and the media is all over them because said pilot "one member of the flight crew" had multiple FAA checkride failures is not a good thing.

Like what has been stated, get some time under your belt. Get that ATP, go fly something else for a while and maybe do some corporate work in the right seat and prove that you are trainable.

Good luck, and remember there is nothing about this industry that is fair!
 
To the guys that have been in these interviews, when they ask if you have failed a checkride or a stage check do they give you a chance to explain or is it a simple yes or no? Personally, I haven't failed a checkride (though I do have my initial CFI coming up so I'm going to knock on wood), but I have failed a stage check. I failed my 2nd stage check on instrument(approaches and holds) and it was one of the worst experiences I have ever had in my training. The guy that picked up my stage check had a bad reputation and was known to be unreasonably strict. Once I got wind of who picked up the sheet I decided to beat him at his own game and not give him a chance to fail me. I figured the more difficult it was the better it would be for me since flying is what I want to do with my life I'd need to be as prepared as possible. Over the next 2 weeks my CFI and I did ground everyday for 1-2 hours and he was certain I could pass my oral with flying colors. He ended up failing me within 10 minutes because I didn't know what the significance of the charting index # was at the top of a NACO chart[AL-XXXX], I wasn't familiar with GPS approaches (we didn't have any planes that could fly GPS approaches), and my lack of knowledge of class A operations(pretty much all I knew to tell him was to set the altimeter to 29.92).

I know it sounds an awful lot like projection, but I genuinely believe I got the short end of the stick--as did my CFI who was visibly angry with the other CFI about it for quite sometime. I went up a few days later with another CFI for the same check and aced it. I just hope that that miserable experience isn't going to hold me back someday.
 
I think I busted 3 check rides and I still got hired at Colgan (pre-accident though.) My dad was an F-14 pilot when he busted his ATP and he's had a long, long career.

It sucks that everything is online now, and there's currently extra scrutiny on anyone that's had a few busts, but that's how it goes. When the pilot record improvement act first came out in the 90s it was due to some bad crashes where the pilot's had multiple busts at their 135 or 121 job. After a few years I think that atmosphere cooled down, in a couple of years this one will too.

Here's my suggestion. Get a few hours and then when the regionals start hiring en mass again, hop on at a bottom feeder (if you have a decent personality they're generally not picky). Put in your 6 mos -1 year then hop off for something better. Once you get through your first airline job without busting initial, training or upgrade, I don't think anyone cares about student busts anymore.
 
Ajax BU said:
To the guys that have been in these interviews, when they ask if you have failed a checkride or a stage check do they give you a chance to explain or is it a simple yes or no? Personally, I haven't failed a checkride (though I do have my initial CFI coming up so I'm going to knock on wood), but I have failed a stage check. I failed my 2nd stage check on instrument(approaches and holds) and it was one of the worst experiences I have ever had in my training. The guy that picked up my stage check had a bad reputation and was known to be unreasonably strict. Once I got wind of who picked up the sheet I decided to beat him at his own game and not give him a chance to fail me. I figured the more difficult it was the better it would be for me since flying is what I want to do with my life I'd need to be as prepared as possible. Over the next 2 weeks my CFI and I did ground everyday for 1-2 hours and he was certain I could pass my oral with flying colors. He ended up failing me within 10 minutes because I didn't know what the significance of the charting index # was at the top of a NACO chart[AL-XXXX], I wasn't familiar with GPS approaches (we didn't have any planes that could fly GPS approaches), and my lack of knowledge of class A operations(pretty much all I knew to tell him was to set the altimeter to 29.92).

I know it sounds an awful lot like projection, but I genuinely believe I got the short end of the stick--as did my CFI who was visibly angry with the other CFI about it for quite sometime. I went up a few days later with another CFI for the same check and aced it. I just hope that that miserable experience isn't going to hold me back someday.
Click to expand...
You'll likely have a chance to explain it, but I wouldn't explain it like that.

Your explanation should be about what YOU learned and about how it made YOU a better pilot. If you mention the examiner's reputation or unfairness or what your cfi didn't teach you in the interview then you're answering the question wrong.
 
Clocks said:
You'll likely have a chance to explain it, but I wouldn't explain it like that.

Your explanation should be about what YOU learned and about how it made YOU a better pilot. If you mention the examiner's reputation or unfairness or what your cfi didn't teach you in the interview then you're answering the question wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand. Obviously I learned a lot leading up to it, but I didn't feel like it was necessary to put that spin on it here.
 
yeah, make it about what YOU learned!!! That other stuff sounded like a kid who is pouting! (not saying that is you) On the other hand, a buddy of mine hs three bust and a medical issue, and he still got an interview . . . so the world is not over foor you yet! Just dont go and get an Accident or an Incident, and you should be good to go! (that happend to me. . oh well, no airline in my future right now)
 
Hey jerrywhite7 at least you made it alive. We had an instructor walk away from an in-flight fire, and did everything perfect. Saved his life and students life, and he's now having trouble finding a job. In the last week or so I’ve seen 4 instructors get hired with a regional, that have had 3 or more busted check rides. So for all you guys out there with 3 or more, keep building your hours, and keep learning... You’ll be fine
 
HJB said:
Hey jerrywhite7 at least you made it alive. We had an instructor walk away from an in-flight fire, and did everything perfect. Saved his life and students life, and he's now having trouble finding a job. In the last week or so I’ve seen 4 instructors get hired with a regional, that have had 3 or more busted check rides. So for all you guys out there with 3 or more, keep building your hours, and keep learning... You’ll be fine
Click to expand...
Thanks for the hope!! What regionals were they?
 
greaper007 said:
I think I busted 3 check rides and I still got hired at Colgan (pre-accident though.) My dad was an F-14 pilot when he busted his ATP and he's had a long, long career.

It sucks that everything is online now, and there's currently extra scrutiny on anyone that's had a few busts, but that's how it goes. When the pilot record improvement act first came out in the 90s it was due to some bad crashes where the pilot's had multiple busts at their 135 or 121 job. After a few years I think that atmosphere cooled down, in a couple of years this one will too.

Here's my suggestion. Get a few hours and then when the regionals start hiring en mass again, hop on at a bottom feeder (if you have a decent personality they're generally not picky). Put in your 6 mos -1 year then hop off for something better. Once you get through your first airline job without busting initial, training or upgrade, I don't think anyone cares about student busts anymore.
Click to expand...

To be brutally honest, that's how it should be. Three busted checkrides prior to a 121 carrier? It is indicative of a problem, and I don't blame 121 regionals for avoiding such candidates. Maybe it was hard luck, but most likely the individual has some issues. Historically, that has been the case.
 
wrxpilot said:
To be brutally honest, that's how it should be. Three busted checkrides prior to a 121 carrier? It is indicative of a problem, and I don't blame 121 regionals for avoiding such candidates. Maybe it was hard luck, but most likely the individual has some issues. Historically, that has been the case.
Click to expand...
WOW. . . uh no!! So a guy bust a pvt ride 15 years ago, then screws up on some dumb way out there question on a commerical oral, then later goes on to do a CFI check ride, only to be knocked down by an FAA person who has something to prove? No way!!!

This is why airlines have interviews, ground schools and IOE . . . folks grow in aviation, usualy after they become CFI's. I think that have pre-professional bust (training bust) is not that big of a deal. We have one DPE around our parts that has NEVER, NEVER, NEVER passed an a CFI canidate on their first attempt.
I've also had a friend of mine send an instrument student to a DPE, who made the person do things and explain things that I doubt most of us could ever explain or hardly do!!! The ride was more a an ATP single type ride! And of course the pvt instrument student busted!!
I'm not saying that things should be easier for a "non-professional" student, but sometimes the DPE's can be JERKS!!!
Other people just get really, really nervouse when tested. Heck every time I take a check ride, when they ask me my name, I have to pause and think about it!
 
jerrywhite7 said:
WOW. . . uh no!! So a guy bust a pvt ride 15 years ago, then screws up on some dumb way out there question on a commerical oral, then later goes on to do a CFI check ride, only to be knocked down by an FAA person who has something to prove? No way!!!

This is why airlines have interviews, ground schools and IOE . . . folks grow in aviation, usualy after they become CFI's. I think that have pre-professional bust (training bust) is not that big of a deal. We have one DPE around our parts that has NEVER, NEVER, NEVER passed an a CFI canidate on their first attempt.
I've also had a friend of mine send an instrument student to a DPE, who made the person do things and explain things that I doubt most of us could ever explain or hardly do!!! The ride was more a an ATP single type ride! And of course the pvt instrument student busted!!
I'm not saying that things should be easier for a "non-professional" student, but sometimes the DPE's can be JERKS!!!
Other people just get really, really nervouse when tested. Heck every time I take a check ride, when they ask me my name, I have to pause and think about it!
Click to expand...

You're talking about single events. Yes, anybody can have a bad day and bust a ride, or end up with a bad examiner. But three busted checkrides is indicative of a potential problem. There are enough other candidates out there that don't have a history of checkride failures that I just don't see why a 121 carrier would take that chance.

Some of the worst regional accidents out there were with pilots that had a history of failed checkrides. Here's just a couple that are well worth reading about: United Express 6291, Eagle Flight 3379, United Express (Mesa) 5733, and Colgan 3407. I believe the Eagle accident is what lead to PRIA.
 
I will agree with you on one point. . . the fact that airlines do have to hire you based on the fact that they may be having to defend you butt someday infront of the media, lawyers and victim's families. But I do think it is not all black and white on if your a good pilot, then you would have never had a bust (or two, or three, or four, or five. . ok, you get that many, get out of the air).

Also, yes, if I'm an airline, I'd rather take the guy who has had NO bust than the equal guy (gal) with bust.

all that said, this time next year, if hiring is still what it is today. . . EVERYONE WILL GET TO PLAY!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top