Q400 growth

[SurferLucas]

What part do you need to see? Take a look at the contract, look under the 50-78 seat rates, then scroll on over to DOS+3. Those rates are equal to Horizon rates, DOS+4-5 are better than Horizon rates.

I see nothing on APC as to your payrates. Is there somewhere I can see them?

 

[L-16B]

I see nothing on APC as to your payrates. Is there somewhere I can see them?

are the horizon apc rates corrected for 12 pay periods or are they the standard 11 pay periods?



YOS 2/18/11 12/1/11 12/1/12 12/1/13 12/1/14 12/1/15
0 to 1 $ 56.89 $ 59.84 $ 62.94 $ 65.12 $ 67.37 $ 68.72
1 to 2 $ 58.59 $ 61.63 $ 64.82 $ 67.06 $ 69.38 $ 70.77
2 to 3 $ 60.36 $ 63.49 $ 66.78 $ 69.09 $ 71.47 $ 72.90
3 to 4 $ 62.17 $ 65.39 $ 68.78 $ 71.16 $ 73.62 $ 75.09
4 to 5 $ 64.02 $ 67.34 $ 70.83 $ 73.28 $ 75.81 $ 77.33
5 to 6 $ 65.96 $ 69.38 $ 72.98 $ 75.50 $ 78.10 $ 79.66
6 to 7 $ 67.93 $ 71.45 $ 75.16 $ 77.75 $ 80.45 $ 82.06
7 to 8 $ 69.96 $ 73.59 $ 77.40 $ 80.08 $ 82.84 $ 84.50
8 to 9 $ 72.06 $ 75.80 $ 79.72 $ 82.48 $ 85.33 $ 87.04
9 to 10 $ 74.22 $ 78.07 $ 82.11 $ 84.95 $ 87.89 $ 89.65
10 to 11 $ 76.45 $ 80.41 $ 84.58 $ 87.51 $ 90.53 $ 92.34
11 to 12 $ 78.75 $ 82.83 $ 87.13 $ 90.14 $ 93.24 $ 95.10
12 to 13 $ 81.10 $ 85.30 $ 89.73 $ 92.83 $ 96.04 $ 97.96
13 to 14 $ 83.55 $ 87.88 $ 92.44 $ 95.63 $ 98.93 $ 100.91
14 to 15 $ 86.05 $ 90.51 $ 95.20 $ 98.49 $ 101.90 $ 103.94
15 to 16 $ 88.64 $ 93.24 $ 98.07 $ 101.46 $ 104.96 $ 107.06
16 to 17 $ 91.29 $ 96.02 $ 101.00 $ 104.49 $ 108.11 $ 110.27
17 to 18 $ 94.03 $ 98.90 $ 104.03 $ 107.63 $ 111.35 $ 113.58

 

[SurferLucas]

Are the payrates on APC corrected for the 12 month pay rates? Just curious, I'm on 4th year pay, and Q captain over there shows $71 an hour, which factoring in that is for 11 pay periods not 12, comes to $65 an hour. Here are our fourth year captain rates:

Current 12/1/11 12/1/12 12/1/13 12/1/14 12/1/15
62.17 $ 65.39 $ 68.78 $ 71.16 $ 73.62 $ 75.09

Secondly, it seems incredibly weird to me that I might be defending Colgan, and I believe this is a first . I'm just really happy right now, I'm flying a little under 60 hours for the month of March, but will be crediting in the 120's! I purposely bid for my sim, and my 3 days of recurrent ground on my days off. I also have one week vacation that was worth 21 hours. My sim got cancelled to put someone who was going to dequal in instead of me, and wait, I get cancellation pay!! On those 2 days I would have been on the sim, on top of my cancellation pay, I picked up 2 day trips. I'm crediting a little under 20 hours for two day trips. This is the first time I've had a contract, and the soft pay and min day is racking up big time for me. I have no idea what other airlines soft pays come out to be, but man, life is good. And the number one quality of life increase for me is NO MORE COMMUTING!!!! CJC growing in IAH is a dream come true!!

If those are your rates going forward, then I say great job guys! That can only help our industry. Horizon will have a hard time convincing an arbitrator to lower rates when you guys are going up. Hopefully that will allow is to stay one step ahead, then in turn help you guys get boosted again in 5 years.

This isn't a Horizon v Colgan thing, it's a pilots helping each other thing.

 

[L-16B]

If those are your rates going forward, then I say great job guys! That can only help our industry. Horizon will have a hard time convincing an arbitrator to lower rates when you guys are going up. Hopefully that will allow is to stay one step ahead, then in turn help you guys get boosted again in 5 years.

This isn't a Horizon v Colgan thing, it's a pilots helping each other thing.

Definitely not a Horizon v Colgan thing, I'm just curious about soft pay rates, as they are brand new to me...... That's where I'm making all my money this month, not on any pay rates whatsoever. As a testimony to how good yall are at Horizon, we have a senior Q FO that is about to upgrade on the Saab that wants nothing more than to get hired by horizon and live in Washington. Either your company treats you guys awesome, or Washington is really kickasss. And seeing how liberal the west coast is, your company must treat you good! I'm too post happy this morning, I just spent over an hour tearing apart the contract and figuring out how much I was crediting this month

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Don't know who he works for but he doesnt represent our views at cjc!! I'll admit to being a dickhead on my own I don't need other people to point that out

No doubt man. I fly out of the same gloomy corner of IAD as a lot of colgan guys and while most of them kind of keep to themselves or look at the floor when I give "the nod" they seem like a good enough group. I'm glad you guys got a new contract that raises the bar for you guys. I've heard some horror stories on how you all were treated. It's also no secret that what another group negotiates has a big effect on the rest of us. People like to stand up and say "well pay rates are only a small piece of the puzzle" but (as I point out at my own company) when you don't pay for your own gas, don't own most of your own planes, and your schedules are set by another company, employee costs DO play a major role. We are all in this messed up industry together. We need to make it better for everyone. I'm hoping we make the same kind of strides that you guys did with our new joint contract negotiations.

 

[kellwolf]

What does Delta's scope say about those Q400s? I figured they'd be tapped out even on that scope after the new E170s for Shuttle America and Compass.

 

[CRJDriver]

With your lack of knowledge of the contract and a dickhead comment like that you must work for ASA. ASA stocks DB's like they are going out of style(No, not Corners or Safeties either).

I think ASA's captain rates are "crappy". In Mesaba's concessionary contract our 50 seat CA's made more money that ASA 70 seat CA's. By December 1, 2012 All of the Q CA's and FO's will make more than their ASA 70 seat counter parts. So in 20 months all these people that work for "crappy" rates will be out earning you in a slow little turbo prop maybe find out what the real deal is. Instead of me just calling parts of your contract crap I ask you to get off your ASA high horse and do a little research and smile or say "hi" when some one walks by and is trying to be nice. Believe it or not ASA isn't the end all of regional airlines.

Remember to

I'm not sitting on a high horse here at ASA, I'm just glad I'm sitting somwhere. But you don't know anything about me or my background.

 

[SurferLucas]

Definitely not a Horizon v Colgan thing, I'm just curious about soft pay rates, as they are brand new to me...... That's where I'm making all my money this month, not on any pay rates whatsoever. As a testimony to how good yall are at Horizon, we have a senior Q FO that is about to upgrade on the Saab that wants nothing more than to get hired by horizon and live in Washington. Either your company treats you guys awesome, or Washington is really kickasss. And seeing how liberal the west coast is, your company must treat you good! I'm too post happy this morning, I just spent over an hour tearing apart the contract and figuring out how much I was crediting this month

Horizon used to treat it's pilots really kickass...back when I first started at Horizon, it was a sweet place to work. Now that it looks like I'll be returning from leave soon, I'm not sure what I'll find there. There has been alot of strife with management because we gave them concessions in order to keep the remaining CRJ flying, and then to have them pull it right out from under us. It looks like the Alaska flying might happen, with possibly 5-7 airplanes and a crew base in ANC...even an outside shot at an SJC or LAX base before too long (even though LAX has been rumored since I started in 07).

PDX is an awesome base, because you can live in Vancouver, WA and have no state income tax...then shop in Oregon with no state sales tax. It's a pretty sweet deal there.

Those Colgan/Mesaba rates are really good looking guy, I'm glad to see that you guys were able to fight and raise the bar. With Lynx not really being a factor, the only basis for comparison that Horizon/AAG will have is Colgan/Mesaba and their rates. If we can raise our bar in the next few years, it should be pretty good for you guys to bring up to ours. Hopefully our Teamsters will talk with Colgan Alpa and can foster a friendship there to help each other out.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I'm not sitting on a high horse here at ASA, I'm just glad I'm sitting somwhere. But you don't know anything about me or my background.

While I do commend you're helping of others on this board, I can't abide your comments about our contract. I've already got enough yellow cards for insults to fellow user, so don't think I'm being classy by not tossing an insult or two.

Anyway, enjoy the high road !

 

[L-16B]

Horizon used to treat it's pilots really kickass...back when I first started at Horizon, it was a sweet place to work. Now that it looks like I'll be returning from leave soon, I'm not sure what I'll find there. There has been alot of strife with management because we gave them concessions in order to keep the remaining CRJ flying, and then to have them pull it right out from under us. It looks like the Alaska flying might happen, with possibly 5-7 airplanes and a crew base in ANC...even an outside shot at an SJC or LAX base before too long (even though LAX has been rumored since I started in 07).

Hopefully our Mx department will start talking to yours. I'm curious as to how yalls Mx is, and if it really is Mx pig, or if the new mesaba can turn around our reliability....... Our trainin has gotten better, but I wouldn't know as I was one of the original flight safety classes and have never been trained by Colgan. Horizon has the more COMPLETE q400 program

PDX is an awesome base, because you can live in Vancouver, WA and have no state income tax...then shop in Oregon with no state sales tax. It's a pretty sweet deal there.

Those Colgan/Mesaba rates are really good looking guy, I'm glad to see that you guys were able to fight and raise the bar. With Lynx not really being a factor, the only basis for comparison that Horizon/AAG will have is Colgan/Mesaba and their rates. If we can raise our bar in the next few years, it should be pretty good for you guys to bring up to ours. Hopefully our Teamsters will talk with Colgan Alpa and can foster a friendship there to help each other out.

 

[CRJDriver]

While I do commend you're helping of others on this board, I can't abide your comments about our contract. I've already got enough yellow cards for insults to fellow user, so don't think I'm being classy by not tossing an insult or two.

Anyway, enjoy the high road !

Since I apparently offended some peple by my comment, I sincerely apologize. And I sure as hell ain't sitting on a high horse. I'm just glad I'm sitting somewhere after being through all that crap at Comair for the past several years. My crappy regional ain't any better than yours.

 

[SurferLucas]

Hopefully our Mx department will start talking to yours. I'm curious as to how yalls Mx is, and if it really is Mx pig, or if the new mesaba can turn around our reliability....... Our trainin has gotten better, but I wouldn't know as I was one of the original flight safety classes and have never been trained by Colgan. Horizon has the more COMPLETE q400 program

Horizon's MX is really good, but the Q400 is still behind the CRJ in dispatch reliability...and probably always will be. The Q400 has so many can pop up and screw up your day. It SHOULD have been the clean sheet design that it was intended to be, and maybe it wouldn't have as many problems.

I think we're looking at having a spare in PDX and in SEA before too much longer. We've had the Q4 since it was new and it still hasn't gotten to where we need it MX wise. So unless Mesaba/Colgan has some magic dust to sprinkle on it, good luck!

The Q400 training at Horizon is top notch...they really throw the book at you and get you ready for just about everything you'll see on the line.

Are you guys still doing ref speed and Vse for approach bugs? Or did you pick up the Vref and Vref ICE way of doing things?

 

[jynxyjoe]

Since I apparently offended some peple by my comment, I sincerely apologize. And I sure as hell ain't sitting on a high horse. I'm just glad I'm sitting somewhere after being through all that crap at Comair for the past several years. My crappy regional ain't any better than yours.

Mr. Congressman I refer you to you're own comments.

I could see DL going for the Q with the increase in fuel prices and the cheap labor. I'm sorry, but the Q rates are crappy!

Anyway, whatever. Your record here of trying to help your fellow pilot more than outweighs any single crass remark. Honestly I've got nothing against ASA, they've always had a remarkable contract, great numbers, and are the apple of Delta's eye. I'm glad as much flying goes to them. I hope you guys raise the bar in your own way during these contract talks as well, makes it easier during our next round of talks.

 

[L-16B]

Horizon's MX is really good, but the Q400 is still behind the CRJ in dispatch reliability...and probably always will be. The Q400 has so many can pop up and screw up your day. It SHOULD have been the clean sheet design that it was intended to be, and maybe it wouldn't have as many problems.

I think we're looking at having a spare in PDX and in SEA before too much longer. We've had the Q4 since it was new and it still hasn't gotten to where we need it MX wise. So unless Mesaba/Colgan has some magic dust to sprinkle on it, good luck!

The Q400 training at Horizon is top notch...they really throw the book at you and get you ready for just about everything you'll see on the line.

Are you guys still doing ref speed and Vse for approach bugs? Or did you pick up the Vref and Vref ICE way of doing things?

We bug VREF and V2GA....... Which is stupid in my opinion. VREF will always be greater than V2GA, so why even bug it? On top of that, no turning off increase ref speed switch under 1000 AGL. I'm not a fan. I have heard that it will be changed over the summer, and they are delaying it so they don't do it during the middle of icing season, which has some logic. Heck, our training department doesn't even know that your supposed to fly VCLIMB for your drift down alternate speed....... We will need that in May is what I'm hearing....But that's ok, things WILL get better with Mesaba training.

You were the guy with the Georgia logo right? Quincy Carter for life!!

 

[sherpa]

Are the payrates on APC corrected for the 12 month pay rates? Just curious, I'm on 4th year pay, and Q captain over there shows $71 an hour, which factoring in that is for 11 pay periods not 12, comes to $65 an hour. Here are our fourth year captain rates:

Current 12/1/11 12/1/12 12/1/13 12/1/14 12/1/15
62.17 $ 65.39 $ 68.78 $ 71.16 $ 73.62 $ 75.09

Secondly, it seems incredibly weird to me that I might be defending Colgan, and I believe this is a first . I'm just really happy right now, I'm flying a little under 60 hours for the month of March, but will be crediting in the 120's! I purposely bid for my sim, and my 3 days of recurrent ground on my days off. I also have one week vacation that was worth 21 hours. My sim got cancelled to put someone who was going to dequal in instead of me, and wait, I get cancellation pay!! On those 2 days I would have been on the sim, on top of my cancellation pay, I picked up 2 day trips. I'm crediting a little under 20 hours for two day trips. This is the first time I've had a contract, and the soft pay and min day is racking up big time for me. I have no idea what other airlines soft pays come out to be, but man, life is good. And the number one quality of life increase for me is NO MORE COMMUTING!!!! CJC growing in IAH is a dream come true!!

Yaa

I have three training events in march which knocked my credit down to 69 (not a bad number) from 89. With the new workrules I will get paid 85. WIN

 

[SurferLucas]

We bug VREF and V2GA....... Which is stupid in my opinion. VREF will always be greater than V2GA, so why even bug it? On top of that, no turning off increase ref speed switch under 1000 AGL. I'm not a fan. I have heard that it will be changed over the summer, and they are delaying it so they don't do it during the middle of icing season, which has some logic. Heck, our training department doesn't even know that your supposed to fly VCLIMB for your drift down alternate speed....... We will need that in May is what I'm hearing....But that's ok, things WILL get better with Mesaba training.

You were the guy with the Georgia logo right? Quincy Carter for life!!

Thankfully Horizon is Vref and Vref ICE for bugs and we can turn off ref speeds after Flaps 35 and Bleeds On/Off-Min on the Landing Checklist.

Haha, Quincy Carter can end up in gutter for all I care (probably already is). Quincy Carter thankfully helped get Jim Donnan out of the HC position and Mark Richt in.

QC = WASTE OF SPACE!

 

[sherpa]

Horizon's MX is really good, but the Q400 is still behind the CRJ in dispatch reliability...and probably always will be. The Q400 has so many can pop up and screw up your day. It SHOULD have been the clean sheet design that it was intended to be, and maybe it wouldn't have as many problems.

I think we're looking at having a spare in PDX and in SEA before too much longer. We've had the Q4 since it was new and it still hasn't gotten to where we need it MX wise. So unless Mesaba/Colgan has some magic dust to sprinkle on it, good luck!

The Q400 training at Horizon is top notch...they really throw the book at you and get you ready for just about everything you'll see on the line.

Are you guys still doing ref speed and Vse for approach bugs? Or did you pick up the Vref and Vref ICE way of doing things?

We are switching to the ref/ref ice method next year. i guess it takes some regulatory gymnastics to get it done so they decided to implement it next year.

 

[sherpa]

We bug VREF and V2GA....... Which is stupid in my opinion. VREF will always be greater than V2GA, so why even bug it? On top of that, no turning off increase ref speed switch under 1000 AGL. I'm not a fan. I have heard that it will be changed over the summer, and they are delaying it so they don't do it during the middle of icing season, which has some logic. Heck, our training department doesn't even know that your supposed to fly VCLIMB for your drift down alternate speed....... We will need that in May is what I'm hearing....But that's ok, things WILL get better with Mesaba training.

You were the guy with the Georgia logo right? Quincy Carter for life!!

I'm 99% sure the did not have a ref switch on the b25 over tokyo on that fateful night and they did just fine!!

 

[L-16B]

I'm 99% sure the did not have a ref switch on the b25 over tokyo on that fateful night and they did just fine!!

I can't wait til next week to see ur half jap asss in ewr! U better plan on going and getting some good sushi. We got an awesome group in our class.... 5 hours credit a day!!

 

[Seggy]

Secondly, it seems incredibly weird to me that I might be defending Colgan, and I believe this is a first . I'm just really happy right now,

The real reason you are so happy is that we get to spend the next four days together in a closed confined quarter. Don't lie!