I have a friend who recently started flying for a cargo company. Within hours of him signing the training contract, he was offered a job flying a Beech jet in the right seat, for more money, closer to home. I was just wondering if anyone can shed some light on what a company can actually do if you decide to bust a training contract and can't afford to pay?
Training Contratcs
- Thread starter mshunter
- Start date
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
1. My personal feeling is that my "yes" is "yes", and my "no" is "no". When I hauled checks there was no training contract, but they asked me to stay for 6 months, I said I would, and I did.
2. Aviation is a small world.
3. I am not the one in the situation, so it is his decision.
4. Depends on the state and the contract. Is it a promisary note that he signed? His best bet is to take the contract to a lawyer and see what he/she says. Anything anyone says here may or may not be correct. Yeah, a lawyer will charge him. But the advise could save a bunch of money in the long run.
2. Aviation is a small world.
3. I am not the one in the situation, so it is his decision.
4. Depends on the state and the contract. Is it a promisary note that he signed? His best bet is to take the contract to a lawyer and see what he/she says. Anything anyone says here may or may not be correct. Yeah, a lawyer will charge him. But the advise could save a bunch of money in the long run.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Virtually every profesional field has you sign a contract (12-24 months usually). I don't philosophically have a problem with saying I'll stay for 1-2 years if I accept a job or accept an upgrade. I understand the company wanting some assurance of getting their money's worth from you. However, anything beyond 2 years is a deal breaker IMHO.
Don't EVER burn a bridge in aviation, it WILL bite you in the rear somewhere down the road.
If the company is run by a serious prick they can sue you to make you pay. However 99% of the time this will cost more in legal fees than the company will get from the pilot. What they usually will do is report it to as an unpaid debt on your credit report. This can hurt your credit score somewhat for a few years, but you probably can settle it later when you have a stable income.
If your friend literaly just started his job and got a much better offer, then I would suggest sitting down with the freight company and telling them the truth. The worst they can say is "Yes you will have to pay the training contract".
I know of many pilots who had to leave my company before their 12 months were up. Some got better offers after 10 or 11 months of trouble free service, and some for reasons completely beyond their control. None of those guys were chased for any money.
Don't EVER burn a bridge in aviation, it WILL bite you in the rear somewhere down the road.
If the company is run by a serious prick they can sue you to make you pay. However 99% of the time this will cost more in legal fees than the company will get from the pilot. What they usually will do is report it to as an unpaid debt on your credit report. This can hurt your credit score somewhat for a few years, but you probably can settle it later when you have a stable income.
If your friend literaly just started his job and got a much better offer, then I would suggest sitting down with the freight company and telling them the truth. The worst they can say is "Yes you will have to pay the training contract".
I know of many pilots who had to leave my company before their 12 months were up. Some got better offers after 10 or 11 months of trouble free service, and some for reasons completely beyond their control. None of those guys were chased for any money.
SFLAX
Well-Known Member
A contract can not enrich one person more then another and if he is in a right to work state, then a training contract is null and void from the start. If I can get fired tomorrow, then I can leave tomorrow. Now if its an employment contract, then there can be a penalty form leaving early. But again, a one way contract, that says if you get fired or leave they get X, well then you should get Y if other things happen. Those contracts never have that.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
I have only had to sign one in my career thus far and that was for regional carrier and was for 12 months. I personally would never sign one longer than 12 months and wouldn't sign it without reading it over throughly. I have see some pretty crappy contracts in my time. You need to know when you are requred to pay and if it is prorated. The contract doesn't need to be legal in the state you live, just int he state where the airline is based. A friend of mine just finished paying one back to a regional carrier. The airlines don't have to be nice an sue you for it, they can just sell it to a debt collector and trash your credit.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
If you are not an employment lawyer in the state in which the contract was written and have actually read the contract I'd be very, very careful about giving specific advise.
Good replies so far. I told him he should either pay up the contract, or let the company know who wants to hire him the details of the contract to see if they can help him with it somehow. I also told him that it's a small community, and he needs to be very careful with how he handles this. Leaving for a better paying job now, might smite him later down the road if he decides not to pay up. ***For the record*** this is in no way relating to me. I almost feel sorry for him because he was trying to get on with the company that wants to hire him for so long, and he finally gets a call from them with an offer literally the same day he signed the training contract. Some things just aren't meant to be I guess.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Has the freight company actually spent any serious money on training him yet?
If not, "Hey guys, I REALLY appreciate you hireing me, but I just got a call from my dream job. I know I signed a contract, and I don't want to leave you hanging, but I'm really tempted to take the other job. Can we work something out?"
If they still say "pay up or stay 12 months", then your friend has some tough decisions to make.
However many times, freight outfits know that they are only stepping stones and expect guys to move on to bigger and better things.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
If he still hasn't started training then his best bet would be to talk to the company holding his contract. They may just let him out of it since they really aren't out any significant money yet.
But you may be on to something else as well. Everthing happens for a reason and God has his reasons. In some of my past employment opportunities the jobs I wanted and didn't get have turned out be blessings in the long run.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Ain't that the truth.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Take the job. I've never had any one come after me for a training contract and at my previous company they hired street Capts. that got the type and walked the same day with no repercussions. Qol always trumps a contract.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Yeah, character and integrity are over rated and only apply when convenient.
“Integrity is not a conditional word. It doesn't blow in the wind or change with the weather. It is your inner image of yourself, and if you look in there and see a man who won't cheat, then you know he never will.”
Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught.
If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.
The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Ok. I see your point of view but heres mine: I've lived in a lot of God forsaken places far away from home, given up years of my life away from loved ones, family, I've missed births, deaths, holidays, lost a girl I wanted to marry, I could go on and on...All because I had made a commitment to a company that didn't give two poops about me as a person. I moved freight that in the grand scheme of things didn't change anything in this world. Little Johnny got his Ipod, sure, and I missed my grandfathers last words-because I let the company talk me in to flying that night and then leave all because I agreed to stay and fly until they could get someone there. Somebody else got a new laptop (more of a porno machine I'm sure) and the girl of my dreams couldn't stand the fact that I chose an airplane over her (she worked days, I worked nights and we lived hours apart-totally my fault). Now the only two things I look for in a job are how much I'm home and how often it allows me to see the people that matter most. When I started using those two criteria things really opened up for me.
I'm not going to be an old man and look back on my life and think about all the things I missed out on because I kept my word to a company that probably won't be around and worked some job that kept me away from the things that are really important in life.
I'm sure that when I am on my death bed (hopefully from old age) I'll look back and realize that my integrity is fully intact because I kept myself true to whats really important.
Are we worlds apart on this? Am I looking at this totally different than you are? I'm asking because I don't know. We could be talking about two totally different things.
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
I don't have any problem with that and it's admirable. I too lived in some pretty crappy places... personally, I think the middle of the Sahara Desert ranks near the top of crappiness. I spent a year away from my wife and kids because I gave my word that I would go when called. Others got out of it and told me how I could as well. I felt it was more important to be able to look myself in the mirror each night.
I just feel when you give someone your word- written, verbal or otherwise- you should stand by it. Sometimes it's not convenient to do so, it can be messy or costly. But how you deal with these situations says more about a person than any words ever can.
I don't know the entire situation of mshunter's friend, so I can't say what he should or should not do. But I don't know of anyone even in the military who is forced to fly or is forced to sign a contract. You have a choice. If you sign a contract you should normally do what it says. We decry dishonest politicians; corrupt CEOs; crooked lawyers and the like. Why should we be any different? I may not be nice; maybe I'm a little too gruff; I screw up many things. But if there is one legacy I would like to leave my children it is that I always kept my word.
I just feel when you give someone your word- written, verbal or otherwise- you should stand by it. Sometimes it's not convenient to do so, it can be messy or costly. But how you deal with these situations says more about a person than any words ever can.
I don't know the entire situation of mshunter's friend, so I can't say what he should or should not do. But I don't know of anyone even in the military who is forced to fly or is forced to sign a contract. You have a choice. If you sign a contract you should normally do what it says. We decry dishonest politicians; corrupt CEOs; crooked lawyers and the like. Why should we be any different? I may not be nice; maybe I'm a little too gruff; I screw up many things. But if there is one legacy I would like to leave my children it is that I always kept my word.
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Did your buddy already complete his training at the company? All they can really do is tell future employers that they would not re-hire you. Usually, talking with the people in charge can solve the problem. Maybe they could take the guy to small claims court, but hes a pilot... he doesnt have any money!
Anyway,,, does this mean that there is now a job opening for you?!
That's the way to handle it. Honesty is the best policy.
If they insist, I think I would simply man up and stick by my word. If I told them I would work for them for "x" amount of time, then that's what I'm going to do.
Honesty and integrity always pay off in the long run. Always.
They may not always pay off monetarily, but money isn't the most important thing in my life, not by a long shot.
As far as I know, the contract only gets signed once you complete the training. So he made it through. I spoke with him last night, and he says he is going to stick it out with the company for the duration of the contract. He spoke with the head of the company that wants to hire him, and told them about the contract. They said that they don't want him to brake the contract, and that if he does, they won't have a position for him. But if he fulfills the contract, they will have a position availible for him when is done.
Cessna414JJB
Unknown Member
Honesty will almost always prevail. If this happened more, we would not need contracts and subsequently there would be more underemployed lawyers leaching around.
Most of the lower time gigs require a contract because people tend to fall short of commitments unless someone messes with their money.
Most of the lower time gigs require a contract because people tend to fall short of commitments unless someone messes with their money.
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
Uh...maybe I am missing something here, but the military is FULL of contractual obligations!
Mshunter, good choice by your buddy. It's all about the karma man!